Will Prohm ever win a championship?
- Thread starter Peter
- Start date
I agree, but if you rate them in terms of how good a college player they were, much of that is determined by team success (including coaching). If you look at it from both the recruiting ranking and NBA perspective, ISU did not have a crazy amount of talent. They are certainly not perfect ways to evaluate whether or not a college team was talented, but they are the only ways to do it while controlling for coaching as a factor.
While Fultz is maybe not the best example because he appears to be flaming out, normally if a college team is terrible and has a top 5 NBA pick do we say that coach underachieved, or do we say, "well he wasn't a good college player, so the coach didn't actually underachieve?"
I would say Hield as a #6 overall pick is maybe a bit different, but Mason and Carter are good examples. Of course I'd rather have them than Fultz. But I'd also wonder what would Fultz have done under Bill Self, and how good would Mason have been under Lorenzo Romar? Tough to judge a coach based on talent when using players performance under that coach as the metric.
That's the whole point of KenPom. You look at actual performance rather than an outcome.
Man, it blows my mind how little credit Prohm is given for even having Iowa State in the NCAA tournament or conference championship discussions at all this year. He knew he was going to have to take last year on the chin and reconstruct his roster. He did just that and brought in Shayok and Jacobson as transfers and then put together one of the best recruiting classes in the history of the program. I just don't get why our fan base can't just take last year on the chin and move on.
So let me ask you this..that 14-15 squad finish 12-6 in the conference and won the conference tournament and garnered a 3 seed. That season is a disappointment because of a single game in March. I just want to make sure that this is the standard you are sticking to because I’ve seen that argument a hell of a lot.
If a team goes 10-8 in the conference, losses in the first round in the Big 12 but wins a game in the NCAA Tournament does that make it a better season that 14-15? In which case 2011-12 and 12-13 were better than the 14-15 season?
Last edited:
Your post and fandom is stuck on mediocrity. Loyal? No. Go find another team to cheer on. He can't put the basket in the hole. He can't literally push our guys to dive at loose balls. Yeah, he can try to motivate them, but it's called execution. They lack that. Yeah, some of this all comes down to coaching, but most of it points to whether these guys even want to go out and compete. They lack fight, intensity, drive, and team leadership. They can't do the little things even remotely correct. He could be preaching that at practice, but if the team can't display what's been preached, then that's called lack of execution.
Yes. I know.
What I am saying is that wins and losses matter more when it comes down to evaluating a job that a coach is doing. No one is going to get their job saved because of a kenpom rating.
Because they yearn for the days of yore where Johnny Orr and Fred Hoiberg were leading us to Conference titles and never had let downs in the NCAA Tournament. Dammit, all those banners up there deserve company.
And not to mention what was on the court last year compared to this year, is vastly different. If we still had Young, we'd be able to combat the lack of rebounding and post interior defense, but they don't. Maybe there are too many bucket getters and not enough role players. I don't know, either way this team lacks mental toughness to energize themselves at tip off.
well if you have a good kenpom rating you are probably going to have a good win/loss percentage so there is correlation.
Why aren’t we blaming hoiberg for not winning the regular season conference title that year?
Yeah, sure, in the macro. The problem is that people don't realize that we went 2-19 from three and still put up 72 points in 72 possessions. Sometimes you shoot poorly and get beat.
The other thing is, wins against top 42 opponents aren't easy to come by in college basketball so this idea that the Baylor and TCU losses are just this awful TTU circa 2014 type of loss is ridiculous. There is not a pattern of Prohm losing to bad teams. We have lost games we shouldn't have and I'm not arguing that this year isn't somewhat disappointing. I would say that most of the people ******** are probably the same people who thought we'd be a bubble team which I also find just kind of weird.
I'm glad I've mostly backed out of the basketball threads, especially the postgame ones.
Most likely. But look at Texas. They are 15-12 on the year. Auburn entered the year as a top 15 team. They are unranked and .500 in the SEC and haven't beat a ranked team all year. They are 14th in KenPom.
And he'll leave at the first opportunity for an NBA job. This isn't rocket science. We know what his passion is and that is not recruiting.
Oh totally. I don't know why the freakout after the TCU loss on the road. That is a game people should expect to be a loss and be extremely happy when they win. They dropped a couple games at home they shouldn't have but they also went on the road and beat two ranked teams which is really difficult to do. I think some people hear people on TV say that ISU might be the most talented team in the league and in their mind they think that ISU should then win every game or something which is just not realistic and talent means many things. Haliburton and THT might be very talented and have a bright future but they are still just freshman and are inconsistent.
In that scenario this would be a disappointing season. I'm also hoping that doesn't happen.
I don't make the rules, but college basketball success is determined about how you did when it mattered, if my memory serves me correctly that bracket was a perfect set up for Iowa State. Making the year we were a 3 seed and a lost in the first round a very disappointing season. But hey at least Fred didn't make Jameel practice. I would have traded that conference tourney title for a deep run to the Elite 8 in a second.
Again, not perfect comparisons, but the closest we have at ISU were the years with Royce and Allen coming on board, and the following year with Clyburn and Lucious. Both of those seasons, like this one some solid returning guys and talented newcomers. The challenge is to figure out the roles, fit them together and make the team work. Those teams were on the edge of the tourney much of the year and ended up as 8 and 10 seeds. That's about where most of the predictions for this season started, with some expectations a bit lower just because of how bad last year went. Those expectations also had a healthy Wigginton and Young, as well as an eligible Lard and Talley baked in. Obviously being in the drivers seat to dethrone KU makes the losses sting, and reset expectations. I think that is reasonable, but I still think being this harsh to the team is crazy considering they are losing close games to tournament teams, and are still going to exceed preseason expectations despite a lot of unexpected roster instability.
I know that Solomon is not a star, but the guy would be far and away ISU's best P&R defending big, and best physical presence and rebounder. Guys like Tyler Cook absolutely destroyed this team a year after getting handled by Solomon. He was also becoming really good on the pick and pop before shutting it down last year. Really the things that have cost this team wins are the things he did well.
Yeah, definitely not trying to have criticize the coach conversations.
Also it’s great when you leave out all kinds of context to go after the coach in your little passive aggressive Schrock here.
