Tim Floyd Resigns From USC

For all of you TF lovers I have one question for you...how can a man that has NEVER coached his team (any team) past the Sweet 16 be considered a "great" coach?

Huh? FYI, Orr never coached any of his ISU teams past the Sweet 16 either!

Why do you feel a coach has to get his team into the Elite Eight or better in order to be considered "great"? Do you feel like we are on par with North Carolina and Kentucky where NCAA tournament runs are a dime a dozen? Seems like a silly, unrealistic benchmark to me.

But Orr did coach his Michigan team in 1976 to the Championship game...losing to conference rival Indiana...the Big 10 was loaded back then.

I just think the word "great" is thrown around a little too casually. If Floyd were truly great he would have made it past the Sweet 16 at least one time for as long as he has been a head coach in college BB.
 
the man has been a college coach for a lot of years.

Yeah, but quite a few of those years were spent at places like Idaho (?) and New Orleans, mid-major schools where even making the tournament is a big accomplishment. I don't think you can discount his coaching ability or acumen because he didn't take the Privateers to an Elite Eight.
 
Excuse me, I'm trying to think when Johnny got us past the Sweet 16 - maybe he did, I'm too old to remember. But if he didn't, does that mean, using your standard, he was not a "great coach"?

You are correct...he only got us to the Sweet 16 but he coached Michigan to the National Championship game in 1976. The man could coach.
 
Floyd > LE

That said, I'd take Orr in his prime over either. Not necessarily because Orr was a better coach, but because Orr is and always will be Cyclone BBall.

I would take Orr because he is the better coach and he is Cyclone BB.

Of these three coaches...only one gets invited to the luncheon every year held for coaches that have coached a team to the Final Four...and that man is Johnny Orr.
 
But Orr did coach his Michigan team in 1976 to the Championship game...losing to conference rival Indiana...the Big 10 was loaded back then.

I just think the word "great" is thrown around a little too casually. If Floyd were truly great he would have made it past the Sweet 16 at least one time for as long as he has been a head coach in college BB.


True and probably true, at least with the term "great" being thrown around too much.

IMO, it seems like this thread has devolved into a pissing match about who was the best coach at ISU, and if TF, JO, and LE were good coaches at all. Frankly, I do get tired and frustrated with what I view as the increasing "black OR white" viewpoint with posters on this board, leaving no room for shades of grey or nuanced viewpoints. I think that objectively, JO, TF, LE, and even Wayne Morgan can all be regarded as "good" coaches for our basketball program, and each of them had his strengths and weaknesses and brought different things to the basketball program during their tenures.
 
the man has been a college coach for a lot of years.

Yeah, but quite a few of those years were spent at places like Idaho (?) and New Orleans, mid-major schools where even making the tournament is a big accomplishment. I don't think you can discount his coaching ability or acumen because he didn't take the Privateers to an Elite Eight.

This begs the question...if TF is so "great" then why was he not scooped up by more high profile programs? It is certainly not because he has a propensity to want to stay with any particular job he has for an extended period. Make no mistake, Floyd had a lot of advantages getting into the business of coaching...his father was a longtime coach at Southern Miss and he got him an assistant slot under the legendary Don Haskins.
 
This begs the question...if TF is so "great" then why was he not scooped up by more high profile programs? It is certainly not because he has a propensity to want to stay with any particular job he has for an extended period. Make no mistake, Floyd had a lot of advantages getting into the business of coaching...his father was a longtime coach at Southern Miss and he got him an assistant slot under the legendary Don Haskins.


Because USC jumped him quickly when they booted Bibby.

Do you consider Arizona a high profile program? Not too long ago they went after TF.
 
This begs the question...if TF is so "great" then why was he not scooped up by more high profile programs?

To partly answer your question, I think coaching searches are a lot different now than they were 10-15 years ago, which is approximately when we got Floyd. I think back then it took "mid-major" coaches a few years to build up a resume and get notice around the country before getting a big, BCS-type of offer. These days, due partly to the rise of the internet and "hype" and information being spread around so much more quickly, it doesn't take nearly as long for these "mid-major" coaches to get national attention and get themselves on the radar screen. Take John Calipari and Stan Heath, for example; it took a few years of Calipari developing UMASS into a national power, culminating in a trip to the Final Four, before he went onto bigger and better things. Stan Heath took Kent State to the Elite Eight in just one season before he was hired by Arkansas.
 
Just to clarify...I believe that LE was drinking the "lightning" from the bottle.

For all of you TF lovers I have one question for you...how can a man that has NEVER coached his team (any team) past the Sweet 16 be considered a "great" coach?

By the way, Johnny Orr IS the greatest basketball coach that ISU has ever had!

You are never going to be happy with who ISU has as a coach.
 
Okay for those of you arguing against TF, clearly you weren't paying attention or you just don't a whole lot about ISU MBB history. TF accomplishments cannot be denied. If you were watching his teams during that time period you know that he was the better coach in almost every game he coached. That is saying a lot. He may not have had as much talent, but he won games based on his coaching adjustments, not just superior altheticism of his players.

People talk about his NCAA tourney history. Well if you are in the "against" crowd, such as "not making it past the Sweet 16", that arguement makes you look stupid. He wasn't at ISU for that long, but if you remember the '97 team's game to make it to the Elite 8, they lost in OT to a very good UCLA team 73-74. I won't go into it because it is too painful, and you don't remember it anyway so explaining it to you won't matter.

Backtracking to the '96 team, he threw a bunch of players together and lost to Utah in a fantastic game against which nobody thought they would be in.

The 96 & 97 teams that Floyd put together from an ISU MBB perspective were amazing. They don't get the credit they deserve because they had no huge stars, but they were among the best ISU history.
 
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The 96 & 97 teams that Floyd put together from an ISU MBB perspective were amazing. They don't get the credit they deserve because they had no huge stars, but they were among the best ISU history.

wait... what?

How are Cato, Bankhead, Pratt, Holloway, and Willoughby no-name players? Cato is one of the best NBA players that ISU has ever produced, and had, I believe, the second longest career next to Hornacek
 
wait... what?

How are Cato, Bankhead, Pratt, Holloway, and Willoughby no-name players? Cato is one of the best NBA players that ISU has ever produced, and had, I believe, the second longest career next to Hornacek

I'm guessing he meant at the time. That team wasn't supposed to do anything.
 
You are never going to be happy with who ISU has as a coach.

Not true at all. I am a results oriented guy.

I loved Orr because he made it happen at ISU. He took us to our first post season in over 40 years and made us a regular. He made us one of the toughest places to play in America.

I liked Floyd because he kept things going, got a Conference Championship, and got us a McDonald's AA. I have personally met the man as well and he is a "nice guy".

I was OK with LE because he had a couple of tremendous teams but I did not like how he acted on the sidelines and towards the players during the games...I vividly recall a game I attended at UT where he spent an entire full length timeout berating one of our players at center court on top of the longhorn logo. The end of the Michigan State game was another embarrassment.

I enjoyed the up-tempo style of Morgan and both the NIT run as well as the NCAA trip where we lost to the eventual champion (NC) in the second round.

I have not been happy with GM because we are playing a very weak schedule and we are struggling mightily on the court...both during the weak non-conference and certainly during the conference. His overall recruiting has been horrible...although he has signed a few guys that can play...CB, WJ, MT...only one has really been a part of the program (CB)...the others just were not around that long. The majority of his recruits have been mid-major type guys at best. Eikmeier, for example, is the type of kid that, if he is at ISU at all, is on the team as a walk-on...certainly not a Big 12 caliber scholarship recipient.
 
Okay for those of you arguing against TF, clearly you weren't paying attention or you just don't a whole lot about ISU MBB history. TF accomplishments cannot be denied. If you were watching his teams during that time period you know that he was the better coach in almost every game he coached. That is saying a lot. He may not have had as much talent, but he won games based on his coaching adjustments, not just superior altheticism of his players.

People talk about his NCAA tourney history. Well if you are in the "against" crowd, such as "not making it past the Sweet 16", that arguement makes you look stupid. He wasn't at ISU for that long, but if you remember the '97 team's game to make it to the Elite 8, they lost in OT to a very good UCLA team 73-74. I won't go into it because it is too painful, and you don't remember it anyway so explaining it to you won't matter.

Backtracking to the '96 team, he threw a bunch of players together and lost to Utah in a fantastic game against which nobody thought they would be in.

The 96 & 97 teams that Floyd put together from an ISU MBB perspective were amazing. They don't get the credit they deserve because they had no huge stars, but they were among the best ISU history.

I was at that game in San Antonio. UCLA was good for certain but we were in the driver's seat to win that game and lost...does the coach not share some responsibility for the loss?