Star Wars Expanded Universe Thread

[harimad]

I think they should have let Leia go in episode 8 when she was vented into space. She dies there, purple hair lady then moves into Leias roles (supposedly, Leia was going to have a bigger role in episode 9, so having purple hair lady be the Leia figure keeps those plans in episode 9 open). Then, you keep Luke alive. Essentially, instead of having him disappear in the sunset, he just has a moment of accomplishment and a sense of wanting to get back into the fight. Start the ending credits. Then you have an end credit scene with luke trying to lift his X-wing from the water (maybe fails the first time as a joke) and gets it on to the ground; end movie. Then in episode 9, he with the other resistance members.

I think all of this could have been done without any major rewrites or reshoots of the movie.

I like that.

Unfortunately, I was thinking about this the other day-- "Harimad, why doesn't DC have end credit cutscenes for their movies?" I realized it's because DC doesn't have a plan for where they're going, and that's why their movies are collectively terrible.

Then I took it a bit further, and realized that the present incarnation of Star Wars suffers from the same lack of a roadmap. I don't think their directors have any kind of overall storyboard that is being followed. That's why Marvel's movies work so well, and that's why they can have end-credit cutscenes. Because they know what's happening next.

 

[NorthCyd]

TLJ was originally announced as coming out in May 2017, so we'll see.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2015/03/12/star-wars-episode-viii-movie/70212574/

So the fact they moved it from May to December makes you think they are going to go from December to May on IX after Solo flopped in May?

The Solo/Mary Poppins thing isn't my conjecture. People who know a hell of a lot more about the business than any of us are saying that's why they left Solo in May.

 

[cyhiphopp]

I like that.

Unfortunately, I was thinking about this the other day-- "Harimad, why doesn't DC have end credit cutscenes for their movies?" I realized it's because DC doesn't have a plan for where they're going, and that's why their movies are collectively terrible.

Then I took it a bit further, and realized that the present incarnation of Star Wars suffers from the same lack of a roadmap. I don't think their directors have any kind of overall storyboard that is being followed. That's why Marvel's movies work so well, and that's why they can have end-credit cutscenes. Because they know what's happening next.

Solo doesn't have a post-credits scene, but it has two scenes at the end that serve a similar purpose. I really liked them but I won't spoil them for you.

Are they going to have another Solo movie. I haven't heard. It seems set up pretty well right now.

 

[SCNCY]

I like that.

Unfortunately, I was thinking about this the other day-- "Harimad, why doesn't DC have end credit cutscenes for their movies?" I realized it's because DC doesn't have a plan for where they're going, and that's why their movies are collectively terrible.

Then I took it a bit further, and realized that the present incarnation of Star Wars suffers from the same lack of a roadmap. I don't think their directors have any kind of overall storyboard that is being followed. That's why Marvel's movies work so well, and that's why they can have end-credit cutscenes. Because they know what's happening next.

I agree, there is no overall roadmap for this trilogy. Even though many hate the prequel trilogy, it had an overall direction. I think JJ Abrams had a story and character archs for a trilogy, but Rian Johnson probably tore them up. Star wars is a special brand where directors should not be given the same kind of freedom as in other movies. The story group needs to be more involved with these movies and it is clear they are not.

To be fair, with Marvels, the storylines are all coming from the comics, so the story arch has already been written. Disney is just following the comics.

 

[Bader]

So the fact they moved it from May to December makes you think they are going to go from December to May on IX after Solo flopped in May?

I have no idea what they're going to do. Movie studios move release dates all the time, and Disney has already done it to Star Wars movies

 

[Triggermv]

So the fact they moved it from May to December makes you think they are going to go from December to May on IX after Solo flopped in May?

The Solo/Mary Poppins thing isn't my conjecture. People who know a hell of a lot more about the business than any of us are saying that's why they left Solo in May.

I don't buy that last part as I think that the numbers and facts are already proving who made that business decision within Disney to stick with May for Solo turned out wrong. Solo got burried by both Deadpool and Infinity War, with one being another Disney movie. Top business people make terrible decisions all the time. Shoot, look no further than the shambles that is the DC movie universe to see a ton of stupid decisions. We also already have proof that a similar movie to Mary Poppins can survive just fine along with a Star Wars film in December by how great The Greatest Showman performed alongside Star Wars Episode 8 just this past December. For one, they don't have to open on the same weekends in December and for two, there is plenty of money to go around in December many people being on break, especially because no movie studio would really dare trying to jump into the fold against those two with anything else.

 

[Triggermv]

I agree, there is no overall roadmap for this trilogy. Even though many hate the prequel trilogy, it had an overall direction. I think JJ Abrams had a story and character archs for a trilogy, but Rian Johnson probably tore them up. Star wars is a special brand where directors should not be given the same kind of freedom as in other movies. The story group needs to be more involved with these movies and it is clear they are not.

To be fair, with Marvels, the storylines are all coming from the comics, so the story arch has already been written. Disney is just following the comics.

Don't know about that last statement. The MCU movies take influence from the comics, but I'd hardly say they follow them. The movie universe overall is pretty drastically different than the comics from an overall story line standpoint. The more beat for beat stuff is all mostly limited to each characters origin story, but past that, the MCU pretty much makes their own stories. Even the ones similar in name like Civil War and Infinity War are VERY different than their comic counterparts.

 

[Triggermv]

Wish and you possibly shall receive. Rumors are officially out of Kathleen Kennedy stepping down at Lucasfilm

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-kathleen-kennedy-lucasfilm-exit/

 

[247cy]

Wish and you possibly shall receive. Rumors are officially out of Kathleen Kennedy stepping down at Lucasfilm

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-kathleen-kennedy-lucasfilm-exit/

It doesn't seem that she is interested in the depth of the Star Wars universe as much as she probably needs to be, and for that the core of the fan base is deeply divided. For a franchise that has spawned so much content aside from the feature films, she doesn't seem A) be aware of much of it, and B) to want any of it to influence where the films are headed or C) force directors of the saga films to sprinkle any of these items into the story.

There should definitely be a milestone skeleton the directors should be working from. If there is not, then shame on Disney. George Lucas used a little 'make-it-up-as-you-go' in the original trilogy - if you think he had "I am your father" penned from the get go, you're fooling yourself. However the original trilogy was a clear trilogy and had the arc of an epic with a clear call to adventure, dark adversity/peril, and heroic conclusion. The Disney trilogy started that way, but it's not exactly strong in the middle act because of the script RJ was allowed to pen and film. Perhaps episode 9 will cause everyone to view TLJ in a new and favorable light, but that is a tall order to say the least, and JJ will be golden if he pulls it off. I have my doubts.

She is a good to excellent movie producer - she has a great track record if you look at her portfolio. Unfortunately that's not the only thing her position in this particular franchise needs be - her fingerprints should also be on the novels, comics, video games, and any television related content. That position should be filled by a fan first who loves the depth who also then produces movies that incorporate the depth to fulfill the stories they want to tell.

 

[CycloneWanderer]

I agree with 247. It just doesn't seem like a very collaborative, purposeful set of movies so far. There seems to be a giant lack of vision in the writing. That's extraordinarily sad considering the state of the extended universe before it was scratched. You had a pretty good variety of authors all working nearly simultaneously on different pieces of the same story arcs and they were able to get it to come together like it needed to.

No such luck so far in these movies.

 

[tman24]

After 9 the movie have two options. A story with no connection to a skywalker or their friends, or someone needs to lay out a general story arc and have the movies follow them. Then break them into 2 or 3 movie runs and have the same director over those movies to allow the story to go as originally planned. Basically what Marvel has done.

I also thing star wars would be better off creating tv shows. Stories can be created and fleshed out much better.

 

[NorthCyd]

I also thing star wars would be better off creating tv shows. Stories can be created and fleshed out much better.

I am really excited about the Jon Favreau series they are working on. Supposedly he is a big Star Wars fan and is working off ideas he has had since college. It will take place after Return of the Jedi.

 

[Rural]

Solo crashed and burned in China as well.

 

[Triggermv]

Solo crashed and burned in China as well.

All Star Wars movies crash and burn in China. Something about Star Wars has just never sunk in there.

 

[Rural]

All Star Wars movies crash and burn in China. Something about Star Wars has just never sunk in there.

"Infinity War" is going to end up #3 all-time in China.

1 and 2 are "Fast and Furious" movies so, yeah, the market's a little different.

 

[harimad]

I also thing star wars would be better off creating tv shows. Stories can be created and fleshed out much better.

They actually have, and I think they're really high quality. Unfortunately for adult fans of Star Wars, they're all cartoons, shown on Disney channel. That turns off a lot of folks.

Clone Wars and Rebels were both very good, imo.

 

[Triggermv]

"Infinity War" is going to end up #3 all-time in China.

1 and 2 are "Fast and Furious" movies so, yeah, the market's a little different.

China always has tended to lean towards the more mindless, blow-things-up, action/sci-fi flicks. I'm not saying Infinity War is that but Fast and the Furious...... yeah. They also drink up like soup anything Michael Bay, particularly his Transformers series. Believe it or not though, for all the money Star Wars makes overall, really the large lions share of that money always comes domestically as international people in general definitely do not love Star Wars the way American people do. Therefore, this makes it even more important for Lucasfilm to keep its American fans happy with these movies because there really isn't a ton of International backstop that other bad franchises have to fall back on. This is something that also differentiates Marvel and Star Wars right now as Marvel has succeeded much better at winning over everyone everywhere with its movies. Here is a little box office comparison to show you the difference:

Avengers: Infinity War
Total Lifetime Grosses
Domestic: $645,725,073 32.8%
+ Foreign: $1,323,125,043 67.2%
= Worldwide: $1,968,850,116


Star Wars: The Last Jedi
Total Lifetime Grosses
Domestic: $620,181,382 46.5%
+ Foreign: $712,358,507 53.5%
= Worldwide: $1,332,539,889


You can see that domestically these two movies are very similar, but Infinity War has nearly doubled what the last Jedi made in foreign markets.

Here is Transformers: Age of Extinction numbers for everyone to see as another comparison for what I'm talking about with Michael Bay movies and how they pretty much make all their money in foreign markets, particularly China:

Transformers: Age of Extinction
Total Lifetime Grosses

Domestic: $245,439,076 22.2%
+ Foreign: $858,614,996 77.8%
= Worldwide: $1,104,054,072

 

[Triggermv]

I find it interesting as about a year ago, as a finance guy myself who likes to value things, I kept asking myself the question of what franchise is actually more valuable right now to Disney.... Star Wars or Marvel? Keep in mind that the value of anything isn't what it has made in the past, but the present value of all future cash flows. Well, a year later, I think it is easy to answer that question. Its Marvel, at least for now. However, if you were to go back about a year ago, it really was a pretty tough question to answer. There is a lot more to the question than movie money too, but also TV money, toy money, theme park ride money, licensing money, longevity and sustainability of money.... etc.

 

[247cy]

I understand why Disney felt they had to hit the reset button and push the older EU stores into the "Legends" space, namely they wanted to lay fresh tracks. Hard to do if you have to tiptoe around all these other events.

George Lucas let folks play in that space with the novels/comics/video games and wasn't very interested in riding herd with tight reigns. He basically said stay out of this time surrounding the original trilogy and also held the view that any movies he wanted to make would trump anything in that space.

There definitely are several stories from the "Legends" material that I wish could be cannon. My favorite non-Lucas stores are the original Timothy Zahn 'sequel' trilogy, and the story from the KOTOR video game series (specifically the Revan and Kreia arcs in KOTOR II). I'm happy to see items cherry picked here and there, but I wish they would find a way to take more wholesale events along with just a character or two.

For example, when I learned they were going to have a female lead in TFA, I had hoped they would tell a story along the lines of Bastila Shan/Revan - essentially repackage much of that arc. It is an archetypal story and the male/female roles could be reversed or made into siblings, etc to add enough flavor to be perceived as 'different'. Maybe we are fortunate they didn't, as this would be excellent material for a format that could develop the depth those type of characters deserve.

As good as those are however, there are times to pump the brakes on the adoring memory of the old EU. There are stinkers like the Dark Empire comics where the Skywalkers battle clones of the Emperor, or the reaching and poorly constructed threat of the Yuuzhan Vong. Even some of the "ancient origins" of the Jedi order stories were poor and constructed hastily with shallow thought. Much of that content deserved to be pitched overboard, and now that there is a story group, perhaps more of the absurd can be dampened.

 

[Triggermv]

I understand why Disney felt they had to hit the reset button and push the older EU stores into the "Legends" space, namely they wanted to lay fresh tracks. Hard to do if you have to tiptoe around all these other events.

George Lucas let folks play in that space with the novels/comics/video games and wasn't very interested in riding herd with tight reigns. He basically said stay out of this time surrounding the original trilogy and also held the view that any movies he wanted to make would trump anything in that space.

There definitely are several stories from the "Legends" material that I wish could be cannon. My favorite non-Lucas stores are the original Timothy Zahn 'sequel' trilogy, and the story from the KOTOR video game series (specifically the Revan and Kreia arcs in KOTOR II). I'm happy to see items cherry picked here and there, but I wish they would find a way to take more wholesale events along with just a character or two.

For example, when I learned they were going to have a female lead in TFA, I had hoped they would tell a story along the lines of Bastila Shan/Revan - essentially repackage much of that arc. It is an archetypal story and the male/female roles could be reversed or made into siblings, etc to add enough flavor to be perceived as 'different'. Maybe we are fortunate they didn't, as this would be excellent material for a format that could develop the depth those type of characters deserve.

As good as those are however, there are times to pump the brakes on the adoring memory of the old EU. There are stinkers like the Dark Empire comics where the Skywalkers battle clones of the Emperor, or the reaching and poorly constructed threat of the Yuuzhan Vong. Even some of the "ancient origins" of the Jedi order stories were poor and constructed hastily with shallow thought. Much of that content deserved to be pitched overboard, and now that there is a story group, perhaps more of the absurd can be dampened.

Just bring back Dash Rendar and Shadows of the Empire and I'm a happy man