RIP: Chief Illiniwek

[Wesley]

Well I'm sure we can rehash the irony that is the University of Iowa Hawkeyes, and not allowing the Illinois mascot to come to Ia City.

As to where does it end, and the pro-team's mentioned above.

I agree, at least to a point. "Redskins" is one that really is a little over the top. In case you don't know (I didn't), it's not a reference to the general color of the skin, but something rather more graphic and gastly.

But the Braves, Chiefs, etc - I don't get that? Mascots are choosen to signify pride and strength. I guess I would look at it as something to be proud of. Is that different than Spartans, Vikings, Roughriders, etc? You don't often hear about the "Fighting Sissy-boys" (somebody send that to Barta when they realize they have a Native American name in Ia City). Where I do understand the issue is when you see people get dressed up in wardrobe and make a$$es out of themselves. I can see where that would bug some thinner skinned folks. Anyway, I'm not part of that culture, so it's not really my place to say whether it's right or wrong, I just don't get it in most cases.

HBO Real Sports had a segment on this topic about a year or so ago. The main protestor was half Native American and an attendee of U of Illinois. She was also railing against some HS near a reservation that was using the mascot Braves. A large number of the students (near half I believe) were Native Americans and barely any had a problem. A couple of older fellas even said, in reference to her, "I don't need somebody to come in here and tell me that I need to be offended".

But I agree with her. As a person of Irish decent and large stature - I'm readily offended by the notion of "Fighting Irish" and feel the New York and San Francisco Giants demean my girth. :sad9cd: (<-- For those of you who are sarcasm challenged, this is a joke)

The NCAA is scared of its own shadow. I think used of NCAA is highly inappropriate because most of their higher paying member are universities and not colleges. Take that NCAA. Let;s see, Sacajawea on the dollar offended many NAs since some considered her a squaw from their tribal nation and it was not nice to show her. Lets therefore go after the federal mint.

Personally I am highly offeneded by the USC Trojans. Have you seen their mascot with one on the head?

Maybe everyone eventually will be a Coyote, BlueJay, Cardinal, Hawk, Dolphin, Jay Hawk, etc.

 

[Cyclonepride]

The problem is that you could find an argument for any of these names being offensive to someone, and any who argues against the nuts who apply the pressure is automatically labeled a racist. In my opinion, the determining factor should be if a majority or a large minority of a particular group finds it offensive, then ok, change it. But a few people? That is ridiculous. We are already rewriting history books by trying to apply "todays values" to the past.

 

[DexterGreen]

The great irony I find in all of this, is that each and every one of the "Indian" tribes we are offending were themselves expansionist, war-like nations, who treated their women like property and were incredibly brutal to their enemies. And in a 300 year long war, we defeated them in both political and military means.

And a bunch of upper-middle class white people are now trying to force mainstream Americans to "kowtow" to the folks whose *sses we kicked in that conflict.

 

[HOTDON]

So, because I'm not a Native American I'm not allowed to have any interest in the issue? By that rationale I guess Abe Lincoln should have stayed out of the whole slave thing, huh? Come on.

 

[billpickles]

OK, it's time to bring this up. I'm a farmer. I raise corn for a living. The Nebraska Cornhusker mascot offends me greatly. I think it makes fun of me and others who produce corn. The trouble is, most of us are white males, so no one cares about our feelings. Come on liberals - which of you will dare to take up our cause?

 

[DaddyMac]

By all means, no. That's not what I'm saying. It's a difficult point to try and type and get across. It just seems that this is one of those issues where those who are supposed to be offended - aren't the ones who are offended. And those who are offended - have no business being offended.

I know a number of gay couples who are offended (for lack of a better term) by peoples actions and speak. And just about every vile word that comes out of Steve Deace's racist mouth. So I have a reason to be offended. I don't know a single Native American who says - man, that Kansas City Chiefs thing keeps me up and night. No instead I see alot of "White guilt" telling Native Americans they should be offended.

I'm sure there are people who are, and have reason, to be offended. But I again, I don't see them the mics of these things to often. And this isn't 1890's wild west and Native American extermination, or 1860's slavery, so "come on" yourself. Here's the reson why this doesn't have much legs for be Hotdon. Do you know why there aren't that many Native Americans interested in this issue? They don't care. They have real problems. Why aren't these people protesting the squalor that is the Native American reservations? The XX times higher incidences of alcoholism, the X times higher rate of suicide. The disgrace that is their educational system and opportunities? No, it's far sexier to take on the NCAA or NFL - that get's names in the paper.

I'm on both sides of this issue. I can see why "Redskins", in particular is offenseive and deplorable. I'm just waiting for anything resembling a sizable number of Native Americans to say as much, and not just a college "current affairs" class, the ACLU, or some such org. I've given examples of what I've seen on this issue, what the people AFFECTED have to say. What I found particularly funny, was that when the numbers stacked up against the protestors (Native American to Native American), one protestor (Billy Mills, the US Gold Medal distance runner) said that the other side won't tell you the truth, they're being "polite". That their side, is the only true side. So in this protest - at least Billy's, the truth is whatever he says it is, despite the numbers.

 

[madcityCY]

The Seminole Tribe supports Florida State.

 

[jdoggivjc]

The Chippewa tribe supports Central Michigan

 

[madcityCY]

Maybe everyone eventually will be a Coyote, BlueJay, Cardinal, Hawk, Dolphin, Jay Hawk, etc.

Dolphins have feelings too man!!!

 

[mj4cy]

I think its a bunch of crap. People in Urbana don't sit around and say "how can we **** off native americans today...." No, its tradition...people need to get their heads out of their @$$'s and realize that not everyone is out to be disrespectful. Technically, anything these days are politically incorrect......anyone who has suffered loss in a tornado could claim the cyclones are disrespectful.....grow up.

 

[ce1]

Native Americans view Eagle feathers as sacred, much like Christians view the cross as sacred. You'd probably be pretty p*ssed off if someone adorned themselves with a cross or dragged a cross across the basketball floor as a way to fire up the crowd.

And if you've got an opinion, it doesn't mean you're being politically correct. It means you, personally, don't approve. You're being politically correct when you bow to pressure to alter your opinion from someone else.

 

[chadm]

Does touchdown Jesus offend anyone?

 

[brianhos]

I know a number of gay couples who are offended (for lack of a better term) by peoples actions and speak. And just about every vile word that comes out of Steve Deace's racist mouth.

Since when did hatred of gays become racist? I despise this about Deace too, but it is not racists. He is a homophobe, not a racist. Well at least not that I have heard.

 

[brianhos]

I think its a bunch of crap. People in Urbana don't sit around and say "how can we **** off native americans today...." No, its tradition...people need to get their heads out of their @$$'s and realize that not everyone is out to be disrespectful. Technically, anything these days are politically incorrect......anyone who has suffered loss in a tornado could claim the cyclones are disrespectful.....grow up.

No it is just a bunch of whiney snobs that sit around wondering what they can ***** and whine about next. This just happends to be a the whiney topic of the moment.

How about that guy in west des moines that is whining about garbage cans outside peoples houses. Wow I wish I had that kinda time on my hands. I mean to spend time worrying about where people put their trash can... People just have too much free time. Get a hobby and stop bothering me.

 

[DaddyMac]

You're right - improper term, my bad.

I like his new angle on homo-sexuality, that it's not choice, but rather just an unhealthy lifestyle. That the incidents of AIDS and anal-cancer is so much higher.

How ironic. I find it funny that a guy who is so morbidly obese will talk about unhealthy lifestyles. He's probably in a category due to his lifestyle that puts him at risk of umpteen heath issues that'll kill him by 40.

Of course then he gets on his pulpit and preaches about "a good church and salvation". Just about puked.

 

[DaddyMac]

My high school had a cross in it's school logo, and that logo was on the basketball court.

 

[Cyclone62]

Brianhos: It sounds like you've been listening to too much "paranoid conservative" media, spouting "whiney liberal" all over the place. :wink0st: How about instead of identifying these people who, as Cartman would say, "have sand in their vaginas" not as a political area, but for what they really are, Idiots.

 

[brianhos]

Brianhos: It sounds like you've been listening to too much "paranoid conservative" media, spouting "whiney liberal" all over the place. :wink0st: How about instead of identifying these people who, as Cartman would say, "have sand in their vaginas" not as a political area, but for what they really are, Idiots.

Whiney sand in their vaginas idiots it is.

 

[ce1]

My high school had a cross in it's school logo, and that logo was on the basketball court.

I hear ya, i just doubt you decorated your mascot with a cross. If an all Native American school decided to incorporate elements of their religon into their school symbol, everyone would be fine with that as well, i assume.

My perspective on this issue has really changed over the last five years. Five years ago, i'd have agreed that the hoopla around Illinewek (or more at home here, the North Dakota Fightin' Sioux) was overblown. But now, in the summer, i live in a community in Northern Minnesota that is about 50% Native American, and have observed and even partaken in their spiritual activities. I don't think all Native Americans are as upset as the vocal minority, but i do think that it doesn't sit well with a lot of Native Americans. Especially younger ones, who are more exposed to popular culture than the previous generation of Native Americans.

And i can honestly say that i wouldn't want elements of my Christian background integrated into the mascots. The religous artifacts of Native Americans, in many cases, pre-dates Christianity.

I try not be to in-your-face about this issue, but i believe that many people's perspective would change if they didn't live in a society that has essentially no Native American population.

 

[madcityCY]

I hear ya, i just doubt you decorated your mascot with a cross. If an all Native American school decided to incorporate elements of their religon into their school symbol, everyone would be fine with that as well, i assume.

My perspective on this issue has really changed over the last five years. Five years ago, i'd have agreed that the hoopla around Illinewek (or more at home here, the North Dakota Fightin' Sioux) was overblown. But now, in the summer, i live in a community in Northern Minnesota that is about 50% Native American, and have observed and even partaken in their spiritual activities. I don't think all Native Americans are as upset as the vocal minority, but i do think that it doesn't sit well with a lot of Native Americans. Especially younger ones, who are more exposed to popular culture than the previous generation of Native Americans.

And i can honestly say that i wouldn't want elements of my Christian background integrated into the mascots. The religous artifacts of Native Americans, in many cases, pre-dates Christianity.

I try not be to in-your-face about this issue, but i believe that many people's perspective would change if they didn't live in a society that has essentially no Native American population.

Interesting take. thank you for your unique and enlightened perspective. I generally think all of this "offensive issues" talk, usually led by people having no vested interest is so overblown... but you have a good point.