RIP: Chief Illiniwek

[DaddyMac]

You make good points.

And like I said in my initial post way up. I understand the distaste for "Redskins" and the instances where people dress up in Indian garb and make a$$es of themselves - and in turn, the culture. Maybe that's more prevelent than I'm aware of.

Where I part company is those who want a complete exclusion - and moreso in situations where the local Native American community is supportive of the issue.

Just out of curiosity, where you live, what is the mascot(s) of the local schools?

 

[tigershoops31]

You're right - improper term, my bad.

I like his new angle on homo-sexuality, that it's not choice, but rather just an unhealthy lifestyle. That the incidents of AIDS and anal-cancer is so much higher.

How ironic. I find it funny that a guy who is so morbidly obese will talk about unhealthy lifestyles. He's probably in a category due to his lifestyle that puts him at risk of umpteen heath issues that'll kill him by 40.

Of course then he gets on his pulpit and preaches about "a good church and salvation". Just about puked.

Man, every thread on here has to get turned around to homosexuality. Honestly, what is the problem with Deace, or anybody speaking out against homosexuality? If there's no problem with a guy being pro-homosexuality, why should there be with somebody being anti? I don't think he's ever said he "hates homosexuals". If all the liberals are so dead set on everybody getting their unique perspective and cause out there, why should they bash on the people whose perspective is that homosexuality is wrong? I for one can't wait until this goes full circle and everybody in the media is sympathetic for the plight of the straight guy.

 

[cybsball20]

Who's business is it for ANYBODY to tell anyone else they are wrong??? I don't mind if you are a bigot, racost or whatever, but as soon as you try and push those beleifs on me or tell me I am wrong because I don't have a problem with gay people, then we have a serious problem...

 

[brianhos]

Who's business is it for ANYBODY to tell anyone else they are wrong???

The christians, they are the almighty in our culture, and who are you to tell them they are wrong. They can sure dish it out, but when I say we should have a law about christianity, they get mighty upset. But a law against homo sexuality, well that is just fine.

 

[brianhos]

I for one can't wait until this goes full circle and everybody in the media is sympathetic for the plight of the straight guy.

Lets start a straight white mans only club. I wonder how long before we get protested, my guess is 400ms.

 

[ce1]

You make good points.

And like I said in my initial post way up. I understand the distaste for "Redskins" and the instances where people dress up in Indian garb and make a$$es of themselves - and in turn, the culture. Maybe that's more prevelent than I'm aware of.

Where I part company is those who want a complete exclusion - and moreso in situations where the local Native American community is supportive of the issue.

Just out of curiosity, where you live, what is the mascot(s) of the local schools?

I only live up there in the summer...it's pretty cold this time of year :biggrin9gp:

The closest four year colleges are:

UMinnesota-Duluth - Bulldogs
Bemidji State U - Beavers

Then there are a bunch of Jucos:
Verimilion Community College (Ely, MN) - Ironmen (and IronWomen, i assume)
Rainy River Community College (Intl Falls, MN) - Voyaugers
Hibbing Community College (Hibbing, MN) - Cardinals

Minnesota pretty much divested itself of Native American mascots about 15 years ago. I think you have to understand that Minnesota has the nation's second largest population of Native Americans, after Oklahoma. It's a much different perspective here.

 

[DaddyMac]

Honestly, what is the problem with Deace, or anybody speaking out against homosexuality? If there's no problem with a guy being pro-homosexuality, why should there be with somebody being anti? I don't think he's ever said he "hates homosexuals".

:baffled5wh:

OK, sentence by sentence.

1) Wow.

2) I think there's only a need for "pro-homosexuality" - as if there's such a thing - because there's such a rampant homo-phobic element. Honestly, if two guys decide they want to get married or commit themselves, what business is it of yours, mine or Deace's. One side of this fight is imposing their will on the other, the other side is just living life.

3) By definition, that's what he's doing. I'm sorry - no he's just "saving lives". What a load of horse-hooey.

But you're right Tiger, this isn't the proper forum for this discussion. I only used it as an example of why I support gay issues, and not take a strong side on either side of the Native American mascot debate. So I will refrain from futher comment. My apologies.

 

[DaddyMac]

Uh-oh. That Ironmen one is going to be trouble.

Any high schools where the local population, and Native American one, would be more present? Any of them have Braves, Indians and such?

I wonder what they were, as you said, 15 years ago. Wonder if there was a fight over it and what it was like. I really wish I could remember where that example on Real Sports was at, I want to say South Dakota or Idaho (???) As I said, the vast majority there seemed to embrace it. Of course, being readily present in the local community, it might have a more respectful tone and not having students dressing up or mock war-dances and such. Probably not the same type of respect in a community like Indianola where I don't think there's much of a Native American community.

 

[Cyclone62]

Lets start a straight white mans only club. I wonder how long before we get protested, my guess is 400ms.

I thought we already had one of those, isn't that what the presidency is? :wink0st:

 

[DaddyMac]

Look outside...

You being protested yet.....

 

[Cyclone62]

Does anyoe know if the Tama School(s) have been petitioned? I think they're also "Indians" and live on an Indian Reservation... "They should be/are extremely offended!!!"

 

[brianhos]

Look outside...

You being protested yet.....

I am always being protested...

 

[DaddyMac]

That's an interesting point...

What happens when a legislative body like the NCAA or the Iowa High Schools Althetic Assoc. tell schools they have to change their mascots away from Native American names - including institutions that serve a large, supportive Native American population?

I imagine that has happened somewhere.

 

[Cyclone62]

Look outside...

You being protested yet.....

My neighbors just gave me a petition with 100 names telling me that I need to put on pants, or close my blinds....

 

[Cyclonepride]

Who's business is it for ANYBODY to tell anyone else they are wrong???

So, are you saying that, as a society, we should abandon all ethical and moral standards? We wouldn't want anyone to feel bad about their abberant behaviour. We should just quit teaching our children right from wrong. Then we would have a great generation of people who lack all sense of individual responsibility. Oh, wait, we have that.

 

[madcityCY]

So, are you saying that, as a society, we should abandon all ethical and moral standards? We wouldn't want anyone to feel bad about their abberant behaviour. We should just quit teaching our children right from wrong. Then we would have a great generation of people who lack all sense of individual responsibility. Oh, wait, we have that.

obviously some kind of balance is appropriate.

 

[dbronco7sc]

It's like the most rediculous collection of stereotypical Indian poses set to music. It's performed by students who have no Native American heritage. The only legitamate part of the act is the outfit which is traditional, however, it is traditional garb for a Chief who must earn the outfit and title. That might be the biggest slap in the face of all; the fact that the clothing of the most respected member of a tribe is put on by a student and pranced around the stadium for entertinment.

I personally do not possess enough knowledge about their mascot and the history to take a strong stance for or against the current action. But here are my current observations and thoughts on the subject:

1) Relating to the above post... while making excellent points, the same should be said for the movie industry... is it okay for a person who has not earned the clothing and what not to portray a native american and/or perform steriotypical native american rituals for the sake of making a movie... such as a historical fact based movie that is not intended to degrade native americans... but none the less... the actor hasn't earned the right to wear the cloting.

2) Also, if a person who is not of Native American heritage can't play the role, then we're discriminating against who can be a school's mascot... just because a person is not a Native American doesn't mean he/she can't take pride in his/her school and support Native Americans.

3) A school's mascot is a point of pride... I don't think Iowa State's Cy is a symbol of us making fun of Cardinals... or trying to show how silly Cyclone's are. School's are trying to get respect for their name and mascot... so I don't think that Illinois is trying to disrespect native americans... but that is their school tradition and one that they want respected. Eliminating the chief almost seems like removing one method of public respect for native americans. I think having them as a school's point of pride is a way to help the respect and knowledge of native american's in the public's mind (especially for those who do not live in an area with many Native American's present)

4) Though I don't think anybody intends to make fun of their own mascot... if the students portraying the Chief are doing a terrible job at it... it's not the idea that's the problem... it's that the individual is just not a great actor.

 

[tigershoops31]

Who's business is it for ANYBODY to tell anyone else they are wrong??? I don't mind if you are a bigot, racost or whatever, but as soon as you try and push those beleifs on me or tell me I am wrong because I don't have a problem with gay people, then we have a serious problem...

That wasn't my point. I was saying he's got a right to be opposed to homosexuality just the same as somebody has a right to support it. I am not in favor of homosexuality, but I'm not going to go tell a homosexual that he is wrong and needs to change. Deace is a talk show host, so he's going to state his opinions right wrong or indifferent. It would be different if he was up in your face in real life telling you that you have to have a problem with gay people. You have a right to your opinion just the same as I do and he does...I just think it sucks that if somebody says they think homosexuality is wrong (especially in the media), everybody calls them a bigot or a gay hater. (puts on a raincoat and braces himself for a shower of tomatoes and hater-aid)

 

[madcityCY]

3) A school's mascot is a point of pride...

why don't you treat it that way then??

 

[tigershoops31]

why don't you treat it that way then??

I think he meant that a school selects a mascot because they think it would be a cool symbol of their university and because it could be looked at with pride. Nobody would pick a mascot that they think everybody is going to make fun of and think is ridiculous (except for maybe the Cornhuskers :rofl8yi: ). It's not the university that is "mocking" the Illiniweks, because who would mock their own mascot? It's just the way others are seeing it.