Tell you what, now that we seem to have eliminated the pass drops and turnovers that impacted so much of the offensive woes, as soon as we get some good blocking so that I can judge the play calling fairly, I'll get back to you on that.
Paul Rhoads and Recruiting
- Thread starter Thomasrickj
- Start date
Tell you what, now that we seem to have eliminated the pass drops and turnovers that impacted so much of the offensive woes, as soon as we get some good blocking so that I can judge the play calling fairly, I'll get back to you on that.
I'm not looking for your expertise. It doesn't really matter if the blocking is there or not because if it's not, that's on the staff too. I don't believe blocking, in and of itself, is the issue. I think it has more to do with opposing staffs knowing Messingham doesn't know how to take advantage of blitzes or other stunts defenses can pull. I don't think anyone is scared that if they take a chance, they will get burned so they bring heat constantly and Mess is left wondering what to do.
Exactly. We don't make defenses pay for anything they do. We don't adjust at all.
I've always wondered why we don't take advantage of blitzes. You can run a pass play with a delayed draw option if they defense backs off. If I were an opposing defensive coordinator, I'd blitz every play.
You know what? I'll bag on recruiting. But not the usual "just go recruit more 4-stars". I'm going to bag on the recruiting CHOICES. Obviously, Jevohn Miller can't tackle. We saw that in the bowl game, we saw that in the spring game. So, if he is terrible and Luke Knott is a year away, why didn't they sign a JUCO LB? Same thing on the DL. I watched Brandon Jensen and Walter Woods get blown off the ball last year. What in the world would make you think that they're going to be starter material in one magical offseason? Shoulda found another JUCO DL.
I don't think that the staff brings in bad players, although they probably could have offered a few of those UNI guys. What I think is that they make poor choices as to which positions to bring in. There was zero reason to bring in 5 OLs last year. Keep Glenn on Greyshirt and bring in a JUCO LB or DT or DE. Same thing with the WRs. They seem to have no idea what to do there...first a bunch of slot guys then a bunch of outside guys. Pretty much nobody that is actually dangerous. That was only fixed this year with Lazard and Wesley, finally what looks like a strategy. Before that, it seemed like they would just sign a bunch every year and hope one turns out to be good.
I think that the staff probably needs to go JUCO more to fill holes. IMO they are a little bit arrogant about their ability to evaluate and develop players and they probably got slapped in the face Saturday night.
I understand your point, but Im not sure it's that clear. At linebacker, we have lost more guys to attrition than any position on defense. Guys either backed out the last second, got homesick, etc. I do agree we were thin at LB but that could be due to the fact it was hard to bring in quality guys willing to sit behind AJ/JK for 2-3 years with no shot at starting. I don't have an answer there but I will say that I for the life of me don't understand how Miller got so much hype from his freshman year on. That guy has no business starting on defense, and how a guy that supposedly showed so much promise that he wasn't redshirted could not have developed enough to be serviceable 2 years later. As to your point about the OL recruits last year, they all seemed to be pretty good prospects, I am excited for when they step on the field in 1-3 years, could end up being the best line we have had in a long time. Curtis and Campos especially. To me, ISU can't bring in highly touted LBs and DL and that has always been the case. We have to hope that the evaluation of potential is there and pray that it pays off years down the line when they step on the field. I can't say for sure if their evaluation, development, etc is good or not. I do know that last years defense was good and exciting to watch. I have faith they know what they are doing but this season might just be one of those that falls through the cracks.
IMO we had better underclassmen on the bench (Luke Knott) than the upperclassmen who started the game (Miller) which is an indication that we are getting better recruits. Unfortunately for whatever reason we did not start the more talented underclassmen and instead gave opportunity to an upperclassmen who had been in the program longer. We had a KR (Bundrage) who was given the nod over a more talented newcomer (Wimberly). We had a kicker (Arceo) who was given the nod over a more talented newcomer (Netten). We had two linemen who were upperclassmen (Lichtenberg and Tuftee) who performed worse than the underclassmen.
So the problem is not that we are not recruiting better than we were. The problem is that we are playing the less talented upperclassmen rather than the more talented but less experienced underclassmen. Happens all the time with coaches.
So the problem is not that we are not recruiting better than we were. The problem is that we are playing the less talented upperclassmen rather than the more talented but less experienced underclassmen. Happens all the time with coaches.
Impossible! I was told in this thread and 4 others how this staff can't evaluate talent and cant recruit. Season over, coaches suck, blah rar pfft....
Oh yes, we've seen this before. Danny Mac really did this a lot - it went with the narrative that the guys who have "paid their dues" deserve to start, and the whole "this is for the seniors rah-rah" that Mac was all about. Generally, you're going to give the nod to the guys who have more experience, and generally, the more mature and experienced guys actually are better. Normally, it's because they have had more reps, more time with Yancy, played some snaps and maybe special teams. Once that it's clear those initial choices aren't working, you go to the inexperienced guy and see what he can do. Give Wally credit fore making the change quickly. There were years under Danny Mac where we would go 3-4 games before rotating in a younger guy for half snaps, all the while our vaunted senior (or junior) is getting burned. If it's a tie, you're generally going to see the older player get the nod because he's "earned it more" compared to the young guy. We saw statements about how Knott had really stepped up his game, but now everyone can say that the older guys got a fair shot.
I think we went into the locker room feeling like we weathered the storm, and had righted the ship. We played like garbage the first quarter and a half. Okay, no problem - we got this. We're down a TD. We took some shots on the chin, but we're going to come out and go to town, wear them out. Then the offense proceeds to produce SEVEN points. SEVEN. The offensive play calling goes in the toilet, mental errors start coming at an increasing rate and ultimately execution goes in the toilet too. These are all signs that WE were the ones that got worn out, beat up. Sam was tired and getting hammered. Defense was decent, but the Offense stunk it up, and couldn't come off the ropes to swing. That was it - game over.
I really agree with this. Lots of previous posts about missed blocks, bad reads, blah, blah, blah - UNI's D wore us out.
This may be off the wall, but can you not draw a correlation between basketball and football? In basketball, the best 5 guys will be starting (at least in Hoiberg's system) whether they are freshman like Niang last year or Lucious who was a 5th year senior.
I get the redshirt year to develop thing - that's the ideal situation. But if you have guys who can MAKE A DIFFERENCE right now don't you play them? If recruiting is truly picking up like I believe it is, then you really aren't risking much because you are always bringing in more talent to replace the guys you are going to lose a year 'early'.
Honestly, I think that most recruits would love to come in and know that they are going to have at least a shot to start - certainly still have to earn it, but use that as motivation! We are NOT Alabama or tOSU...we don't have the luxury of having 2-3 levels of 4* recruits ready to jump in at a moments' notice. We have to look at our BEST options across the board and use them.
Meeks, Campos, Tribune, Knott...these guys are good and we need more good. Pull those redshirts (on the first 3) and let's get after it.
FORWARD! Not stuck in neutral.
I get the redshirt year to develop thing - that's the ideal situation. But if you have guys who can MAKE A DIFFERENCE right now don't you play them? If recruiting is truly picking up like I believe it is, then you really aren't risking much because you are always bringing in more talent to replace the guys you are going to lose a year 'early'.
Honestly, I think that most recruits would love to come in and know that they are going to have at least a shot to start - certainly still have to earn it, but use that as motivation! We are NOT Alabama or tOSU...we don't have the luxury of having 2-3 levels of 4* recruits ready to jump in at a moments' notice. We have to look at our BEST options across the board and use them.
Meeks, Campos, Tribune, Knott...these guys are good and we need more good. Pull those redshirts (on the first 3) and let's get after it.
FORWARD! Not stuck in neutral.
Re: Recruiting is Getting Better, but D-line is an Issue
Hope they are ready by the 2020 season.
I think the worry with Knott is size only. I think Miller get's the nod because coaches are worried he is too small to beat the blocks but then again, if Miller can't tackle, doesn't make much of a difference. His coverage of Johnson when he caught their 2nd or 3rd touchdown was horrible aslo. Man what I wouldn't give to have Knott or AJ one more season.
Last edited:
I haven't read this entire thread, so I apologize if someone has done this already.
I think the obvious weakest spot on the field Saturday was LB. Here's what we've lost from our recruiting classes in the past 5 years at LB, with their rivals ratings:
2009 A.J. Klein (No redshirt)
2009 Jake Knott (No redshirt)
2009 Princeton Jackson 5.5 (transfer)
2010 Floyd Mattison 5.6
2010 C.J. Morgan 5.4
2010 Dentrell Pate 5.2
2011 Donald Smith 5.5
2012 Adam Pavlenko 5.6
In contrast, here's who is still here that we recruited as a LB
2009 Willie Scott (now starting DE)
2010 Jeremiah George
2011 Jevohn Miller
2012 Kane Seeley, Darius White
2013 Justin Madison, Alton Meeks, Brian Mills, Justin Webster
The situation at LB is exactly what Rhoads named the biggest problem with recruiting at ISU. It isn't about who you don't get, it is about who you do get that don't pan out. The would-be fifth year players played right away or transferred right away, so they're all gone. From the fourth year players, we lost a 3-star and 2 2-star players. And each of the last 2 years have lost a 3-star to transfer.
This is why we have the issue at LB. Not because Rhoads hasn't brought in sufficient talent, but because the talent hasn't stayed. You can blame that on Rhoads if you want to, or not. But these are the facts.
I would argue that the biggest problem here is that we should have taken more than 2 LBs in the 2011 class, and Brackens should have moved to LB last year, but hindsight is 20/20.
Other than LB, the position hit the hardest is WR, losing 4 3-stars to transfer out of the last 5 classes, in addition to losing Josh Lenz since he did not redshirt. This is probably the #1 reason for our biggest weaknesses on both sides of the ball.
I think the obvious weakest spot on the field Saturday was LB. Here's what we've lost from our recruiting classes in the past 5 years at LB, with their rivals ratings:
2009 A.J. Klein (No redshirt)
2009 Jake Knott (No redshirt)
2009 Princeton Jackson 5.5 (transfer)
2010 Floyd Mattison 5.6
2010 C.J. Morgan 5.4
2010 Dentrell Pate 5.2
2011 Donald Smith 5.5
2012 Adam Pavlenko 5.6
In contrast, here's who is still here that we recruited as a LB
2009 Willie Scott (now starting DE)
2010 Jeremiah George
2011 Jevohn Miller
2012 Kane Seeley, Darius White
2013 Justin Madison, Alton Meeks, Brian Mills, Justin Webster
The situation at LB is exactly what Rhoads named the biggest problem with recruiting at ISU. It isn't about who you don't get, it is about who you do get that don't pan out. The would-be fifth year players played right away or transferred right away, so they're all gone. From the fourth year players, we lost a 3-star and 2 2-star players. And each of the last 2 years have lost a 3-star to transfer.
This is why we have the issue at LB. Not because Rhoads hasn't brought in sufficient talent, but because the talent hasn't stayed. You can blame that on Rhoads if you want to, or not. But these are the facts.
I would argue that the biggest problem here is that we should have taken more than 2 LBs in the 2011 class, and Brackens should have moved to LB last year, but hindsight is 20/20.
Other than LB, the position hit the hardest is WR, losing 4 3-stars to transfer out of the last 5 classes, in addition to losing Josh Lenz since he did not redshirt. This is probably the #1 reason for our biggest weaknesses on both sides of the ball.
Whoa, if I learned anything here at CF the past 4 days, it's that panic > facts. Good post, agree completely
Re: Recruiting is Getting Better, but D-line is an Issue
Precisely, the reason for my comment. We didn't bring in enough DL talent 3-4 years ago. ISU doesn't recruit many 4&5 star recruits that you can expect guys to be Big12 ready in 1-2 years.
Precisely, the reason for my comment. We didn't bring in enough DL talent 3-4 years ago. ISU doesn't recruit many 4&5 star recruits that you can expect guys to be Big12 ready in 1-2 years.
