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***OFFICIAL FIRE MESSINGHAM THREAD***

I have had plenty of time to come off the ledge. Including a month between the WVU and bowl game. During the season I didn't like the direction of the offense, then got fooled by the KU game, and WVU (to a lesser extent). Now looking back at it. I was right with my original diagnosis. This offense sucked and it isn't the players, it is the play calling. Messingham runs and offense that requires rhythm, yet never seems to call plays to get his QB or Oline in rhythm. A change has to be made. Co-offensive coordinators, or get Mess out of there and bring in someone fresh.
 
the coaches need to adapt the offensive scheme to the players that we have. you can't force guys to play a system that they aren't capable of playing. that will always lead to failure. you must adjust your play calling, scheme, philosophy, etc to suit the strengths of your players. not the other way around. that is what breeds success. herman didn't do it when he was here and mess isn't doing it now. we need to establish an identity on offense. are we going to be a running team or a passing team? you can't be both. every team needs 1 strength.
 
TXCyclones said:
I just got home and watched the game on DVR. This wasn't really an O-line issue and the line did a pretty good job early. Our schemes were bad, and the QB play was really bad, and the balls that hit the receivers were dropped. If we had any offense at all we could have been in this game right to the end. Steele was his typical turnover machine. But we didn't have plays set up to take advantage of Tulsa's injuries or adjustments! The opportunities were there and we didn't have the plays. I can see how the D would get frustrated, but they did a pretty good job considering how long they were on the field, and Lange's stupid penalty gave them 7 they no way would have gotten.

I wasn't a fan of Mess moving into that position, and I think this game shows he needs much more mentoring!
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Just seems that Mess is over his head come gametime. Something needs to change next spring. We are not a BCS offense at this point. Neither was Iowa.
 
Tre4ISU said:
The thing about Leach's system is that it completely changes the defensive dynamic since there is little threat of the run (you already know this). I don't think you can just incorporate some of his offense and still run the ball.

Sturdy's offense would probably look something like Hermans which is still similar to Mess's. I don't think any of them are all that "simple" from a play number or formation standpoint. The playcalling on the other hand is pretty simple.
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Ok, I keeed here as one member says: have two qbs ready with one player running Leach plays and the other one Sturdy plays. Evaluate first quarter, then go with the best.
 
What I still find very curious is that in so many games, we start off quite well offensively, drive the ball and then for some inexplicable reason, we stall after the first drive or two.

How can that be the case so often? What needs to change (besides the simple answer of the OC)?
 
While I don't think a "complete overhaul" is necessary, it is troubling to see each QB following the same progression. SJ wins the job, starts well, begins to struggle, losses job, JB comes in, starts well, beings to struggle, loses job, SR comes in, does well, starts to struggle, gets pulled.

Brock Huard alluded to this during the game-- it didn't seem like Sam trusted his instincts. All of our QBs have done relatively well when they first come in and had nothing to lose. But then they feel the press when they struggle, they start to look over their shoulder. You could see it from JB in the K-State game, his refusal to take a chance down field. You could see it too with Sam in the bowl game, he didn't trust himself and held on to the ball too long. That comes from a culture of assuming your getting pulled for mistakes.
 
Clonefan32 said:
While I don't think a "complete overhaul" is necessary, it is troubling to see each QB following the same progression. SJ wins the job, starts well, begins to struggle, losses job, JB comes in, starts well, beings to struggle, loses job, SR comes in, does well, starts to struggle, gets pulled.

Brock Huard alluded to this during the game-- it didn't seem like Sam trusted his instincts. All of our QBs have done relatively well when they first come in and had nothing to lose. But then they feel the press when they struggle, they start to look over their shoulder. You could see it from JB in the K-State game, his refusal to take a chance down field. You could see it too with Sam in the bowl game, he didn't trust himself and held on to the ball too long. That comes from a culture of assuming your getting pulled for mistakes.
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SR probably needed the rest with his stomach falling out from the Flu and all, we werent going to do squat with him and thats fine. I have no beef with SR at all. I would rather have him be healthy. As for Jantz? that guy should be scared to be pulled, his turnovers were atrocious. JB has peaked Im afraid. I will forever honor him for his OSU showing, but since its been spotty.
 
SR wasn't the same guy since KU. He was throwing it all over without even thinking there. Against Tulsa, he was missing immediately wide open guys or throwing late. I think that has more to do with inexperience than anything else but at the same time, why is he having this trouble now when he was so quick and accurate early?
 
Tre4ISU said:
SR wasn't the same guy since KU. He was throwing it all over without even thinking there. Against Tulsa, he was missing immediately wide open guys or throwing late. I think that has more to do with inexperience than anything else but at the same time, why is he having this trouble now when he was so quick and accurate early?
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Pocket collapse, youth, and rain.
 
ISU_phoria said:
What I still find very curious is that in so many games, we start off quite well offensively, drive the ball and then for some inexplicable reason, we stall after the first drive or two.

How can that be the case so often? What needs to change (besides the simple answer of the OC)?
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Just keep rerunning the first 15 s c r i p t e d plays.
 
ISU_phoria said:
What I still find very curious is that in so many games, we start off quite well offensively, drive the ball and then for some inexplicable reason, we stall after the first drive or two.

How can that be the case so often? What needs to change (besides the simple answer of the OC)?
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The offensive unit (players and coaches) need to be able to adjust better within the game. That is why I still have faith in Mess, because many games he comes in with a good scheme, he just needs to get more accustomed to making changes within a game.
 
bos said:
Pocket collapse, youth, and rain.
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Yeah, maybe some of it but that doesn't explain his mistakes when he had time. He made a lot of those too.

If I'm ever a coach and need to protect a player after a bad game I'm just going to say they were sick. You know, I don't really care if he's sick. If he was that sick then he shouldn't have been the one playing. If a sick SR is still better than anything else we have, why did it take us 11 weeks to get him into a real game?
 
Tre4ISU said:
SR wasn't the same guy since KU. He was throwing it all over without even thinking there. Against Tulsa, he was missing immediately wide open guys or throwing late. I think that has more to do with inexperience than anything else but at the same time, why is he having this trouble now when he was so quick and accurate early?
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Did you go to WVU game? Not exactly ideal conditions. Geno didn't exactly look great that night either.

Why don't we wait and judge him when he doesn't have to battle the elements? Or the flu.
 
Tre4ISU said:
Yeah, maybe some of it but that doesn't explain his mistakes when he had time. He made a lot of those too.

If I'm ever a coach and need to protect a player after a bad game I'm just going to say they were sick. You know, I don't really care if he's sick. If he was that sick then he shouldn't have been the one playing. If a sick SR is still better than anything else we have, why did it take us 11 weeks to get him into a real game?
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Mistakes? You mean a RS frosh that was starting his second game made some mistakes? No!
 
im4cyclones said:
Did you go to WVU game? Not exactly ideal conditions. Geno didn't exactly look great that night either.

Why don't we wait and judge him when he doesn't have to battle the elements? Or the flu.
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I don't know that it was bad enough for him to be 13 for 31. I don't remember it being that bad. Maybe there were a ton of drops. Also Geno was 22 for 31, so I don't know that it affected him to much.
 
im4cyclones said:
Did you go to WVU game? Not exactly ideal conditions. Geno didn't exactly look great that night either.

Why don't we wait and judge him when he doesn't have to battle the elements? Or the flu.
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Geno also passed like a wounded duck in the Pinstripe. He is not a bad weather qb. Most of his completions were 5 yarders in the air for no gain.
 
This thread is dumb. When the offensive line sucks, the whole offense is gonna suck. Add to that a QB with the flu and you have an offensive nightmare. Also, I think its hilarious how everyone is giving up on Richardson already. He's a RS freshman who's looked GREAT 80% of the time he's played and was sick the other 20%. "OMGZZZ OUR QUARTERBACKS DONT DEVELOP FIRE EVERYONE!!!!" ******* idiots. Sorry for the rant, buy reading through 6 pages of stupid, overreacting posts has put me at my tipping point.
 
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