Need your help

[dundermifflin]

I have argued with a buddy of mine and I can't seem to convince him, but I do not believe many of the ISU wins over Iowa would be considered upsets if you looked at the teams at the end of the year. He still thinks the ISU loss this year was a huge upset. I think if the game were played this weekend in Ames we would be favored to win. Looking for your help to support my argument.

 

[SuperCy]

Some of those games were mediocre ISU teams and BAD Iowa teams.

I guess the only one I would consider an upset was two years ago when Iowa was #8.
Maybe I'd take the one that broke the streak. They were HUGE favorites that day.

 

[clonez]

From the Cr free football board

CycloneReport.com - Message Boards

 

[keepngoal]

mute point, you won't be able to convince your hawkeye 'friend' any more than he could convince you otherwise.

it doesn't matter if it is an upset or not when it happened or for the end of the year. the fact remains the last 10 years the game isn't a gimmie for any side and they don't like it.

- keep.

 

[ISUFan22]

I think you'll get further doing this...

 

[redrocker]

Is that Marty T????? Sounds just like the topic he had on yesterday.

don't feed!

 

[Clonefan94]

Do what I do. I tell my Hawk friends they are right. Their team is the greatest on the planet and we never should have beaten them. 7 out of 10 is a fluke and next year when we make it 8 out of 11, it will just aggrevate them even more. :wink:

Seriously though, in a lot of ways what Keepngoal said is true. If there is any Hawk fan out there, that despite having more wins, thinks they are playing better than the Cyclones right now, there is no way you'll ever convince them they aren't. They are obviously wearing those Hayden Fry shades way too dark these days. From everything I've seen, Iowa is playing very poorly right now. They just happen to meet 6 teams so far this year that play worse than them.

I'll admit, they are getting the job done, and I'll credit them for becoming bowl eligible, but, honestly to think they are a good team at this point is a huge stretch of anyones imagination.

 

[dundermifflin]

thanks for the link to CR that is exactly what I was looking for.

 

[DaddyMac]

I have argued with a buddy of mine and I can't seem to convince him, but I do not believe many of the ISU wins over Iowa would be considered upsets if you looked at the teams at the end of the year. He still thinks the ISU loss this year was a huge upset. I think if the game were played this weekend in Ames we would be favored to win. Looking for your help to support my argument.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, I'd have to say the iowa loss in '02 was a pretty big upset, based on their season end. Only loss they had. Sure they got smoked in the Orange bowl, but we got clobbered pretty good on the smurf-turf as well.

At the time of the game, however, I don't think it was a monumental upset. Awesome comeback - even better that it was in kinnick. :biglaugh:

This years wasn't particularly big.

 

[cygrads]

The Hawks are average in a below average conference.

 

[jumbopackage]

Unless I'm misunderstanding, I'd have to say the iowa loss in '02 was a pretty big upset, based on their season end. Only loss they had. Sure they got smoked in the Orange bowl, but we got clobbered pretty good on the smurf-turf as well.

At the time of the game, however, I don't think it was a monumental upset. Awesome comeback - even better that it was in kinnick. :biglaugh:

This years wasn't particularly big.

We had a GOOD team in '02. We played an absolutely brutal schedule and still made it to a bowl game. Iowa played a CAKE Big 10 schedule, and we were perhaps their toughest opponent outside of Purdue all year. I think that year every single team they played had a bottom 100 either pass D or rush D. Iowa just gameplanned for that and won. They got exposed BIG time in their bowl game. I don't consider that an upset at all.

 

[psycln11]

I have argued with a buddy of mine and I can't seem to convince him, but I do not believe many of the ISU wins over Iowa would be considered upsets if you looked at the teams at the end of the year. He still thinks the ISU loss this year was a huge upset. I think if the game were played this weekend in Ames we would be favored to win. Looking for your help to support my argument.

WOW...arguing with a Hawk fan.

Good luck with that one!! :no:

 

[Cyclonick182]

Like others have said, 02' and 05' are the only big ones that come to mindas upsets.

 

[ISU_phoria]

Do what I do. I tell my Hawk friends they are right. Their team is the greatest on the planet and we never should have beaten them. 7 out of 10 is a fluke and next year when we make it 8 out of 11, it will just aggrevate them even more. :wink:

I like it! I'm gonna use this from now on too. Something like....

"I'm sorry I even considered the idea that Iowa State is in the same league as Iowa. Iowa has the best program in the Nation & we Cyclones should feel absolutely privileged that we even get to be on the same field as the mighty Hawks. How dare we even think about winning a game, let alone 7 of the last 10. We should be focused on kissing the shoes of the Hawk players, not the actual game itself. And I will sure feel bad next year too, when ISU makes it 8 of 11"

Of course, I'll be laying on the sarcasm just as thick as possible!

 

[colseyp88]

I'm from eastern Iowa, right in the middle of tweety bird land. It's fun to hear all the excuses everytime we beat them.

 

[BvK1126]

I have argued with a buddy of mine and I can't seem to convince him, but I do not believe many of the ISU wins over Iowa would be considered upsets if you looked at the teams at the end of the year. He still thinks the ISU loss this year was a huge upset. I think if the game were played this weekend in Ames we would be favored to win. Looking for your help to support my argument.

I had an Iowa fan make more or less this same argument to me earlier this season. He suggested that Iowa should cancel the series between the two schools if Iowa State did not win 24 of its next 32 games. His argument was that Iowa had no incentive to continue a series against an "inferior" team that expended all its energy trying to beat the Hawks and didn't care about the outcome of the rest of their season. He claimed that Iowa State every time Iowa State had beaten Iowa over the last 9 or 10 years, the Cyclones would finish out the year at 1-11 or 3-9, and that the fans considered the season a success "because we beat Iowa." Here was my response to him:

During the 6 seasons of the past 9 (not counting this year) that Iowa State beat Iowa, their record was 37-35, whereas Iowa's was 32-39. Your suggestion that every time Iowa State beats Iowa, they finish the season 1-11 or 3-9 and happily proclaim the season a success "because we beat Iowa" in no way reflects the reality of the situation. I will break down each season's record for you:

1998, Iowa State 27, Iowa 9 (Iowa State: 3-8, Iowa: 3-8 -- Yes, this was close to the "3-9" record you presume, but Iowa was not a good team that year, either. One can hardly say that Iowa was the superior team that year and should have won.)

1999, Iowa State 17, Iowa 10 (Iowa State: 4-7, Iowa: 1-10 -- Iowa State's record was a bit deceptive that year. They lost 4 games by a total of 17 points, including heart-breaking losses to nationally-ranked Kansas State and Texas. These games exposed a disturbing trend of Dan McCarney-coached teams being unable to finish strong in tight games, but Iowa State was actually a more competitive team in 1999 than the record reflects. The 1999 Cyclones were clearly better than Iowa -- which was mired in in one of its worst seasons ever.)

2000, Iowa State 24, Iowa 14 (Iowa State: 9-3, Iowa: 3-9 -- Iowa State won their bowl game and finished the season in the Top 25. There's no disputing which team was better this year.)

2001, Iowa State 17, Iowa 14 (Iowa State: 7-5, Iowa: 7-5 -- The Cylcones won a close game between two evenly-matched teams.)

2002, Iowa State 36, Iowa 31 (Iowa State: 7-7, Iowa: 11-2 -- No question, Iowa was the better team at the end of the season, but the Cyclones' victory was by no means an upset at the time of the game. After beating Iowa, the Clones ran out to a 6-1 start and were ranked 9th in the country. Then the wheels came off, and Iowa State closed out the season at 1-6 with a bowl loss to Boise State. Every Iowa State fan I know considers this season a major disappointment, even with the win over Iowa. Still, 7-7 and participation in a bowl game is a far cry from 1-11 or 3-9.)

2005, Iowa State 23, Iowa 3 (Iowa State: 7-5, Iowa: 7-5 -- Based on expectations to start the season, Iowa fans were bitterly disappointed with the outcome of this game. But once again, this game was no upset, despite Iowa's 8th-place ranking in the national polls. By the season's end, it was pretty clear that the two teams were comparable in terms of talent and competitive ability.)

Where are all those 1-11 or 3-9 Cyclone teams you are referring to? This has been a very evenly-matched rivalry over the last 10 years. If Iowa fans are honest with themselves, they have to admit that Kirk Ferentz's run of great seasons from 2002-2004 cannot be said to accurately reflect the current state of the program. I'm not saying he can't ever get them back to that level, but they're not there now. Based on where the Iowa program is right now, no one can confidently assume that the Hawks could win 24 of their next 32 games. To expect Iowa State to accomplish that when it's not a given that the Hawks can do it themselves is nothing short of a double standard.

So, the only time in the last 10 years when Iowa State beating Iowa was a clear "upset" (based on how good the team was by the end of the season) was THIS year. And even that wasn't much of an upset, considering how Iowa State is playing now at the end of the season. The numbers don't lie. Tell your Hawkeye friend to put this info in his pipe and smoke it! :realmad:

 

[Clonefan94]

During the 6 seasons of the past 9 (not counting this year) that Iowa State beat Iowa, their record was 37-35, whereas Iowa's was 32-39. Your suggestion that every time Iowa State beats Iowa, they finish the season 1-11 or 3-9 and happily proclaim the season a success "because we beat Iowa" in no way reflects the reality of the situation. I will break down each season's record for you:

1998, Iowa State 27, Iowa 9 (Iowa State: 3-8, Iowa: 3-8 -- Yes, this was close to the "3-9" record you presume, but Iowa was not a good team that year, either. One can hardly say that Iowa was the superior team that year and should have won.)

1999, Iowa State 17, Iowa 10 (Iowa State: 4-7, Iowa: 1-10 -- Iowa State's record was a bit deceptive that year. They lost 4 games by a total of 17 points, including heart-breaking losses to nationally-ranked Kansas State and Texas. These games exposed a disturbing trend of Dan McCarney-coached teams being unable to finish strong in tight games, but Iowa State was actually a more competitive team in 1999 than the record reflects. The 1999 Cyclones were clearly better than Iowa -- which was mired in in one of its worst seasons ever.)

2000, Iowa State 24, Iowa 14 (Iowa State: 9-3, Iowa: 3-9 -- Iowa State won their bowl game and finished the season in the Top 25. There's no disputing which team was better this year.)

2001, Iowa State 17, Iowa 14 (Iowa State: 7-5, Iowa: 7-5 -- The Cylcones won a close game between two evenly-matched teams.)

2002, Iowa State 36, Iowa 31 (Iowa State: 7-7, Iowa: 11-2 -- No question, Iowa was the better team at the end of the season, but the Cyclones' victory was by no means an upset at the time of the game. After beating Iowa, the Clones ran out to a 6-1 start and were ranked 9th in the country. Then the wheels came off, and Iowa State closed out the season at 1-6 with a bowl loss to Boise State. Every Iowa State fan I know considers this season a major disappointment, even with the win over Iowa. Still, 7-7 and participation in a bowl game is a far cry from 1-11 or 3-9.)

2005, Iowa State 23, Iowa 3 (Iowa State: 7-5, Iowa: 7-5 -- Based on expectations to start the season, Iowa fans were bitterly disappointed with the outcome of this game. But once again, this game was no upset, despite Iowa's 8th-place ranking in the national polls. By the season's end, it was pretty clear that the two teams were comparable in terms of talent and competitive ability.)

Where are all those 1-11 or 3-9 Cyclone teams you are referring to? This has been a very evenly-matched rivalry over the last 10 years. If Iowa fans are honest with themselves, they have to admit that Kirk Ferentz's run of great seasons from 2002-2004 cannot be said to accurately reflect the current state of the program. I'm not saying he can't ever get them back to that level, but they're not there now. Based on where the Iowa program is right now, no one can confidently assume that the Hawks could win 24 of their next 32 games. To expect Iowa State to accomplish that when it's not a given that the Hawks can do it themselves is nothing short of a double standard.

OMG - With all that logic and facts presented, I'll assume the Hawk fans head exploded immediately following your response. Every Hawk fan I talk to Assumes every year has been exactly like 2002 for them. In fact, most I talk to don't even mention the bowl game, they refer to it as their 11-1 season. Again, using Hawk logic to distort the facts just enough to make it all make sense for them. In fact, I have one good friend who still says, "Our only loss that year was to ISU." I guess in some ways that is correct, considering the USC game was played in 2003, but, none the less, I consider a year to be the seson, including the Bowl game. Funny though. I've mentioned it to him a couple of times and he says, "Oh well, yeah, but, it was just good to get there." I have another friend who says we cost Iowa the Championship that year. Again, completetly forgetting the fact that they were outmatched by a team not playing in the Championship game either.

I wish someone would write a book about Hawk Logic. I hear it every day and it still makes no sense to me.

 

[BvK1126]

OMG - With all that logic and facts presented, I'll assume the Hawk fans head exploded immediately following your response. Every Hawk fan I talk to Assumes every year has been exactly like 2002 for them. In fact, most I talk to don't even mention the bowl game, they refer to it as their 11-1 season. Again, using Hawk logic to distort the facts just enough to make it all make sense for them. In fact, I have one good friend who still says, "Our only loss that year was to ISU." I guess in some ways that is correct, considering the USC game was played in 2003, but, none the less, I consider a year to be the seson, including the Bowl game. Funny though. I've mentioned it to him a couple of times and he says, "Oh well, yeah, but, it was just good to get there." I have another friend who says we cost Iowa the Championship that year. Again, completetly forgetting the fact that they were outmatched by a team not playing in the Championship game either.

I wish someone would right a book about Hawk Logic. I hear it every day and it still makes no sense to me.

To be fair, the guy did begrudgingly concede my point after reading my post. Another Hawk fan actually took the guy to task, too. The reasonable Hawk fan noted that my "opponent" was essentially suggesting that Iowa should cancel the series against Iowa State until Iowa State became a better team so that when Iowa lost, it would look "prettier." I love that logic -- if you can't beat 'em, schedule somebody "better," so that when you still lose, you won't be quite as embarrassed! :err:

 

[Clonefan94]

To be fair, the guy did begrudgingly concede my point after reading my post. Another Hawk fan actually took the guy to task, too. The reasonable Hawk fan noted that my "opponent" was essentially suggesting that Iowa should cancel the series against Iowa State until Iowa State became a better team so that when Iowa lost, it would look "prettier." I love that logic -- if you can't beat 'em, schedule somebody "better," so that when you still lose, you won't be quite as embarrassed! :err:

Hawk Logic at it's best. I love it.

 

[herbiedoobie]

I would suggest you not "debate" with hawkfan. hawkfan is, by definition, a drooling idiot, who is the genetic result of brothers and sisters reproducing for generation after generation.

In fact, a significant number of hawkfan are generated from the black oily goo found on top of farmers' manure lagoons, by asexual means.

Trust me. It's not worth debating "hawkfan". Don't want to get any of that "stuff" on ya.