Possible, but I find it hard to believe Savannah had no inclination of anything prior to this morning. The news of termination, sure, but c'mon.
Matt Lauer Fired
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Possible, but I find it hard to believe Savannah had no inclination of anything prior to this morning. The news of termination, sure, but c'mon.
I don't even understand how someone thinks this way, it is exceedingly easy to not sexually harass people unless you happen to be a creeper by nature.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
And some people will catch on that he feels sympathetic or vulnerable in that way and exploit the living crap out of it.
It's staggering how much lower the bar is to be elected president than to hold the job of Charlie Rose, Billy Bush, Roger Ailes, Bill OReilly, Matt Lauer, or Mark Halparen.
Not defending those guys a bit, just interesting how their employers and boards of directors all demand drastically more integrity than American voters do in their president.
Not defending those guys a bit, just interesting how their employers and boards of directors all demand drastically more integrity than American voters do in their president.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
It's really simple, too. Just treat people with respect.
Don't hit on people at work.
Don't threaten people with anything sexual anywhere.
When someone looks uncomfortable with your words, actions, gestures, or whatever, stop and apologize. Don't do those things again.
Keep your hands to yourself. Women at work are not an invitation to go exploring.
And by all means, keep your pants on. Everything that starts in your pants stays in your pants.
I don't think any decent man (or woman) should be afraid to work with the opposite sex. That is absolute overkill. I saw that the NYT had an investigation into Lauer already and it seems highly likely that whatever the person brought forward was both damning and a tip of the iceberg.
I work in an industry that is historically male-dominated and I'm sure all my female coworkers and I could name times remarks have been thrown our way that were questionable. But we weren't going to report it because it's not worth it and we know there was no bad intent behind it. If your hand accidentally brushes me at the printer or you make an off-color joke, you're not going to suddenly be unemployed. My environment is lax enough that I'd probably make a joke back.
I have been spending time with other young women as sort of a mentoring/learning group and some of the things that have come out in our discussions have had me seeing red. One woman commented that she had "just a little thing" to run by us and was really, really playing it down. I'm not sure what I expected her to say, but I was not expecting her to say that a coworker - after she had to report something to their mutual manager about serious QC issues - would call her a "*****" to her face for "going behind his back". She hadn't reported it but we all strongly suggested she do so. Because she's now afraid to bring up further issues for fear of retaliation. The very definition of a hostile work environment. Another person was called "********" to her face.
Now with both of these, we strongly encouraged that they take this to HR. Both were reluctant for fear of being "that girl" and retaliation. Both situations are more bullying than sexual harassment but I guess I'm trying to make the point that there's a spectrum between Charlie Rose and accidentally brushing someone's butt as you squeeze past by the printer. If you're lower than the point of calling your female coworkers a "*****", you're probably not in much danger. And if you're the type to make jokes or be touchy-feely and get the impression someone doesn't like it, stop with that person at least.
ETA: *** make it hard to understand. Female dog and the r-word are the ***** words.
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To be fair if I worked with you, Erik, I'd be all over you in a second damn the consequences!
The "nuance" here is simple in my mind. At work, don't toe that line. If you work with someone, don't toe that line. Otherwise, if you're at a bar, or at a social gathering with non-work friends, give it a shot.
Out of curiosity, what is it you are so worried you wont be able to do anymore? What is it that people should have to be reminded of not to say because it could make someone uncomfortable?
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
I only disagreed because I don't feel that a guy hitting on a girl he works with is a no no. If she indicates she isn't interested and he continues then yes it's harassment.
I don't think he's referring to actions that are cut and dry harassment like inappropriate contact or threatening someones job in exchange for favors.
I think the genuine fear is doing something seemingly harmless that is construed as harassment. Like a joke that gets taken the wrong way.
Misunderstandings or false allegations can ruin your reputation at any job. In the end, people are only going to remember that you were accused of something and it almost always gets around. And you're going to fail if you try to convince someone that they took something the wrong way, even if that wasn't your intention in the slightest.
It is something you have to keep in mind and be sensitive to. You have to know that any comment you make needs to be innocuous enough that it can't be taken the wrong way by anyone. And you have to know who you are joking around with or in earshot of. I could make a comment to my friend at work and he knows I'm joking and thinks nothing of it, but Nosy Nancy a few rows over might hear it and be highly offended.
It IS something you have to be aware of. "Don't Be a Creep" is definitely a very appropriate motto, but you have to be aware and sensitive to how anything can be interpreted.
When you care so much about someone, sometimes it's easy to turn a blind eye or pretend like something isn't really happening. I'm not saying she didn't know about it or had heard about it, but there's a good chance her friendship with Lauer made it hard for her to acknowledge this other side of him.
I've always thought Matt was a bit of a prick, but Savannah is a consummate professional. Her interviews are on point and she rarely gives anyone a pass. She knows the law and rarely lets anyone spin on her. In my opinion, she's one of the best on TV.
This is where the problem lies. Define "hitting on". If "hitting on" means striking up an otherwise innocuous conversation with someone in hopes that you hit it off, I don't see anyone saying that is a problem. If "hitting on" is making comments on their appearance, then it crosses a line.
It's just like any other situation that misuses the slippery slope argument. I don't think anyone is saying you have to approach all women with extreme conversation. Hell, hit on them, as long as it's done in a mild-mannered fashion. I just can't figure out why this is so difficult and "nuanced", but, full disclosure, I work in an office with 3 50+ year old women and one happily married woman.
One scenario where it's a no no is if the person being hit on it a subordinate or you have any influence over their career advancement. In those cases, even if it's a welcome advance, it's not a good idea to dip your pen in company ink.
If you are just coworkers and peers, it's probably a good idea to tread lightly until you are sure that your advances are welcome.
Can someone give me an example of this? There appears to be some extreme fears of jokes-gone-wrong, and I'm struggling to think of examples of how this could even happen.
I'm guessing there are some people out there who are afraid to utter the same off color jokes they used to. But you know what, it's just not going to fly anymore. That's life.
Having had to deal with employees where one claims this on another, it's far from cut and dried most times. And truly, there is no good endings for either employees or employer, so I suggest no hitting on period.
