It doesn't matter who our OC is...

[MIClone]

I'm happy to see how many people realize that you can't blame the defense when they are defending downhill all day long. Our offense was supposed to improve under Mangino, but the 3-and-outs have continued at an unacceptable pace. I'm excited and optimistic about this change. If you think our defense is to blame for a losing record so far this season, you haven't been watching our games or Big 12 football in general.

 

[dirtyninety]

JOKE: What does Bruce Jenner have now that Iowa State Football does not??

Answer: A Mangina.

 

[bosco]

Head coach needs to have a plan in place for the entire program. Coordinators may come and go but the system and the strategies remain. Paul can't coach offense. That's a big problem. That means whenever a new guy comes in we have to totally change our offensive system and start over.

Bill Snyder has a system of his own. So does Briles. So does Gundy. OC's come and go for those guys quite a bit, but the success doesn't. Some programs recruit enough talent to survive coaching transitions, but we do not.

Snyder and Gundy have an idea of what they want to run. They get the OC they think can run the O the way they want run. CPR had an idea of what he wanted to run and got Herman who ran his own version of it. Then Mess came in and tried to run something not quite sure what it was. Now MM comes in with his system.

I think CPR's problem had been not getting the OC that will run what he wants. He has brought in guys that have their own established system (except for Mess see above). People have talked about a winning culture I think to have that you have to have an identity first. When was the last time the team had an identity?

Hate them all you want but Iowa is a great example of that. They are going to do what they do. It'd what they hang their hat on. Paul has been trying to fit in an offense which he thought would be the hardest to defend instead of trying to use the offense that is most effective with what he had or recruit too. Paul realized this perhaps too late.

 

[CyCrazy]

The defense is much improved this season vs last year, which means its not regressing.

No its not.

 

[isulive2train]

 

[enisthemenace]

Here are a few stats to look at, and I'm just looking at Saturday. Small sample, I know, but it's what I have.

Pre-Lanning:

Baylor led in TOP (11:14 - 10:32), while Iowa State led in average TOP (1:45 - 1:36). While doing that, Baylor outgained Iowa State 293-46. That translates to average yards/possession of 41.9 - 7.7 in favor of Baylor. Iowa State averaged more that 2 yards less than a single 1st down/possession. The score was 35-0. Almost unbelievably, at that point, Baylor was almost exactly on pace for their YPG average for the season coming into the game.

After Lanning came into to game:

Iowa State dominated in TOP (24:23 - 14:06) and average TOP (4:53 - 1:34). During this stretch, Iowa State held the yardage advantage 335 - 162, as well as yards per possession at 37.2 - 18.0. Iowa State averaged almost four 1st downs/posession once Lanning came into the game. Baylor punted 3 times (only had 12 punts the entire year coming into the game), threw an interception and fumbled. Iowa State also outscored the #2 team in the nation 27-10 during this time.

Can one say a good offense leads to a good defense? Probably not necessarily, but the numbers above look supportive.

 

[Clonefan32]

We can debate offense vs. defense all we want. The moral of the story is we aren't good. We haven't been good for years. Offense, defense, special teams, it's not working. We can change coordinators all we want, but at some point the man in charge has to be held accountable. Simple as that.

 

[isulive2train]

Here are a few stats to look at, and I'm just looking at Saturday. Small sample, I know, but it's what I have.

Pre-Lanning:

Baylor led in TOP (11:14 - 10:32), while Iowa State led in average TOP (1:45 - 1:36). While doing that, Baylor outgained Iowa State 293-46. That translates to average yards/possession of 41.9 - 7.7 in favor of Baylor. Iowa State averaged more that 2 yards less than a single 1st down/possession. The score was 35-0. Almost unbelievably, at that point, Baylor was almost exactly on pace for their YPG average for the season coming into the game.

After Lanning came into to game:

Iowa State dominated in TOP (24:23 - 14:06) and average TOP (4:53 - 1:34). During this stretch, Iowa State held the yardage advantage 335 - 162, as well as yards per possession at 37.2 - 18.0. Iowa State averaged almost four 1st downs/posession once Lanning came into the game. Baylor punted 3 times (only had 12 punts the entire year coming into the game), threw an interception and fumbled. Iowa State also outscored the #2 team in the nation 27-10 during this time.

Can one say a good offense leads to a good defense? Probably not necessarily, but the numbers above look supportive.

 

[clonedude]

The end result might not be any different but at least CPR is going down swinging. Glad something is different. Watching the offense so far was like banging your head against the wall.

This. At least Rhoads hasn't completely given up yet. Still trying something to save his job.

I too am sick of watching the same old offense every week. I understand the plays won't change now, but I just hope the play calling improves. You have to try something different IMO.

 

[Wesley]

The statistics don't lie.

This is CPR's seventh season as the Head Coach at Iowa State. Today marks the 4th offensive coordinator, but we've only had one defensive coordinator the entire time. This is Wally's 7th season at the helm of our defense.

In the first four seasons, three of which ISU was bowl eligible, the defense gave up, on average, 423.25 yards per game, and allowed opponents to score 25.975 points per game. In the three years since (including this one), ISU has given up 489 yards per game, and 36.56667 points per game. That's 65.75 additional yards per game and 10.59 additional points, or a 15% increase in yards allowed and a 40% increase in points.

In those same time periods, Iowa State's offense has actually gotten better. Not much better, but still better. In the first 4 seasons, Iowa State averaged 358 yards per game, and scored 22.475 points. In the last three (including this one), those numbers have risen to 386 yards per game and 25.3 points. That's only 28 yards and 2.825 points, or 7.8% and 12.5%, but it's still an increase in offensive production.

And even more telling is the fact that in the first four seasons, time of possession has actually moved in Iowa State's favor. Iowa State's defense was on the field an average of 31:32 in the first four seasons, while they were only asked to be on the field for 29:11 in the last three seasons.

Don't get me wrong, the offense hasn't been good at ISU. But the difference between three bowl seasons and an almost-bowl season hasn't been the offense. It's been a defense that has gotten worse, and significantly worse when it comes to allowing points. And that defense hasn't been more hampered by an ineffective offense in the mean time. In fact, that offense has helped the defense out even more in the last 2.5 seasons than it did in the previous 4.

And I know what some of you are thinking. Including this year is a bit disingenuous, because we've already played TTU, TCU, and Baylor, but haven't face the more mundane offenses of Texas, WVU and KSU. Of course our defense is going to look worse if we include those games without the evening out effect. But if we eliminate this year from the statistics, the defense gets worse (it goes from 489 yards and 36.56667 points to 501 yards and 37.4 points), but so does the defense (going from 386 yards and 25.3 points to 368 yards and 24.5 points).

The trend continues, though. The defense is getting worse while the offense is getting better.

25 points no longer wins games in B12. That is what we score and we do not win.

 

[Wesley]

Yep. For five years I have said every additional twenty yards the offense can gain means the defense will probably do similar to improve. If we could just be 50/50 with our opponents on yardage, it would be a great day.

 

[dualthreat]

Snyder and Gundy have an idea of what they want to run. They get the OC they think can run the O the way they want run. CPR had an idea of what he wanted to run and got Herman who ran his own version of it. Then Mess came in and tried to run something not quite sure what it was. Now MM comes in with his system.

I think CPR's problem had been not getting the OC that will run what he wants. He has brought in guys that have their own established system (except for Mess see above). People have talked about a winning culture I think to have that you have to have an identity first. When was the last time the team had an identity?

Hate them all you want but Iowa is a great example of that. They are going to do what they do. It'd what they hang their hat on. Paul has been trying to fit in an offense which he thought would be the hardest to defend instead of trying to use the offense that is most effective with what he had or recruit too. Paul realized this perhaps too late.

When Tom Herman left Ohio State they asked Urban Meyer something along the lines of, "How will your players adapt to the new offensive coordinator this year? Will it be a tough transition? etc. etc."

Urban said, nothing will change. The system is here. Tom was running (my) system.

That's what you need. Paul probably has a defensive system, but he hasn't been all that successful with it that's for sure.

 

[CyInDFW]

The statistics don't lie.

This is CPR's seventh season as the Head Coach at Iowa State. Today marks the 4th offensive coordinator, but we've only had one defensive coordinator the entire time. This is Wally's 7th season at the helm of our defense.

In the first four seasons, three of which ISU was bowl eligible, the defense gave up, on average, 423.25 yards per game, and allowed opponents to score 25.975 points per game. In the three years since (including this one), ISU has given up 489 yards per game, and 36.56667 points per game. That's 65.75 additional yards per game and 10.59 additional points, or a 15% increase in yards allowed and a 40% increase in points.

In those same time periods, Iowa State's offense has actually gotten better. Not much better, but still better. In the first 4 seasons, Iowa State averaged 358 yards per game, and scored 22.475 points. In the last three (including this one), those numbers have risen to 386 yards per game and 25.3 points. That's only 28 yards and 2.825 points, or 7.8% and 12.5%, but it's still an increase in offensive production.

And even more telling is the fact that in the first four seasons, time of possession has actually moved in Iowa State's favor. Iowa State's defense was on the field an average of 31:32 in the first four seasons, while they were only asked to be on the field for 29:11 in the last three seasons.

Don't get me wrong, the offense hasn't been good at ISU. But the difference between three bowl seasons and an almost-bowl season hasn't been the offense. It's been a defense that has gotten worse, and significantly worse when it comes to allowing points. And that defense hasn't been more hampered by an ineffective offense in the mean time. In fact, that offense has helped the defense out even more in the last 2.5 seasons than it did in the previous 4.

And I know what some of you are thinking. Including this year is a bit disingenuous, because we've already played TTU, TCU, and Baylor, but haven't face the more mundane offenses of Texas, WVU and KSU. Of course our defense is going to look worse if we include those games without the evening out effect. But if we eliminate this year from the statistics, the defense gets worse (it goes from 489 yards and 36.56667 points to 501 yards and 37.4 points), but so does the defense (going from 386 yards and 25.3 points to 368 yards and 24.5 points).

The trend continues, though. The defense is getting worse while the offense is getting better.

I'd like to know the change in 3rd down conversion %, and the number of three and outs. Those are the statistics that matter. Part of ISU gaining more yards per game is that they are, more than likely, getting the ball more times on average per game. The hurry up offenses all across the conference mean more possessions on average. If the offense is continually gaining a few yards at a time, but not driving the ball, then they are putting the defense at a disadvantage. No defense in the country is going to put up good numbers against the wide open offenses in the conference if they can't catch a breath on the sideline before having to go back out. Another problem is depth. We don't have the depth to rotate guys in and out, keeping fresh legs on the field.

 

[tm3308]

I'd like to know the change in 3rd down conversion %, and the number of three and outs. Those are the statistics that matter. Part of ISU gaining more yards per game is that they are, more than likely, getting the ball more times on average per game. The hurry up offenses all across the conference mean more possessions on average. If the offense is continually gaining a few yards at a time, but not driving the ball, then they are putting the defense at a disadvantage. No defense in the country is going to put up good numbers against the wide open offenses in the conference if they can't catch a breath on the sideline before having to go back out. Another problem is depth. We don't have the depth to rotate guys in and out, keeping fresh legs on the field.

This. Not to mention Baylor's emergence under Briles and the addition of TCU to the conference. Granted, Texas has taken a step back and Mizzou consistently had one of the better offenses in the Big 12, but I think there are more prolific offenses in the Big 12 now than there were in Rhoads' first few seasons when the defense was pretty good.

 

[cyclones500]

We can argue offense vs. defense until we're all blue in the face. And plenty of valid arguments have been made in this thread, and others.

A related question, involving more nuance: How often in the Rhoads era have both offense and defense performed consistently "up to general potential" in the same game, accounting for opponent? That could be a more telling analysis. (It may require putting aside special teams for the sake of discussion).

I would have to dig deeper to find examples, but it's probably a short list.

 

[cyrocksmypants]

JOKE: What does Bruce Jenner have now that Iowa State Football does not??

Answer: A Mangina.

That joke was awful and you should feel awful for thinking it up.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

Snyder and Gundy have an idea of what they want to run. They get the OC they think can run the O the way they want run. CPR had an idea of what he wanted to run and got Herman who ran his own version of it. Then Mess came in and tried to run something not quite sure what it was. Now MM comes in with his system.

I think CPR's problem had been not getting the OC that will run what he wants. He has brought in guys that have their own established system (except for Mess see above). People have talked about a winning culture I think to have that you have to have an identity first. When was the last time the team had an identity?

Hate them all you want but Iowa is a great example of that. They are going to do what they do. It'd what they hang their hat on. Paul has been trying to fit in an offense which he thought would be the hardest to defend instead of trying to use the offense that is most effective with what he had or recruit too. Paul realized this perhaps too late.

Which is how you consistently have systemic failure and why Rhoads was doomed from Day 1 and is a lousy head coach. Him looking for a guy to run an offense he likes is similar to a soccer mom being disappointed her red Geo Metro does not perform like the red Porsche she saw on TV. Both red cars, right? With Rhoads chasing that red Porsche that isn't the best fit for ISU we end up with a bunch of dysfunctional lemons and kit cars.

 

[demoncore1031]

The offense has definitely shown flashes. Especially since the running game has emerged. I have had no issues with play calling this year. It hasn't been completely predictable like in years past. I think pass protection could be better, but a consistent QB has been the one thing holding the offense back. If we had a good QB, the offense would be really solid. But the future looks bright seeing that we have 2 great freshmen RBs, some really good WRs returning next year and a QB with a big arm. Now that QB just needs to work hard and gain experience.

 

[CyInDFW]

The offense has definitely shown flashes. Especially since the running game has emerged. I have had no issues with play calling this year. It hasn't been completely predictable like in years past. I think pass protection could be better, but a consistent QB has been the one thing holding the offense back. If we had a good QB, the offense would be really solid. But the future looks bright seeing that we have 2 great freshmen RBs, some really good WRs returning next year and a QB with a big arm. Now that QB just needs to work hard and gain experience.

The offensive play calling was terrible through the first 3-4 games. I don't think our team is built to beat the fast defenses by calling 20 bubble screens a game

 

[cycloneworld]

I posted this in another thread...stats are fun but they don't tell the whole story.

Our defense, outside of the Texas Tech debacle, hasn't been that terrible.

UNI scored 7 pts
Iowa scored 31 (2 TD in the final 3 minutes)
Toledo scored 20 in regulation
KU scored 13 (7 pts if you subtract the pick-6)
Baylor average 61 pts, they scored 45
TCU averages 50 pts, scored 45 pts

I'm not saying the defense has been great but they have been serviceable except for Texas Tech and the 1st quarter against Baylor. The defense has been put in some stuff spots by the offense too.

Serious question: What more do you want from the defense after last year?