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ISU @ KU Postgame

Spanky said:
I was referencing KU's national reputation for not playing up to their seeding(AKA choke).
Not sure I have all the numbers 100% correct, but with a tourney record of 95-48 and every dance ending with a loss except for NC's(congrats), my thinking has KU averaging less than 2 wins per tournament, and with your typically top seeding, KU's choke reputation is well earned.
You'll have a well earned top seed again this year, try not to embarress us....again
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Duke lost to a 15 seed. Arizona, Syracuse, IOWA STATE, all lost to 15th seeds.

There is lots of pressure especially on blue blood programs in the tournament, and those teams have the biggest targets on their back.

I heard a comment from Dan Schulman today, he said, if the Stanley cup playoff, NBA finals or MLB playoff's were a 1 and done how many different champions we would have. Heck last year the LA Kings were down 3-0 to the Sharks and came back and won it all.

Point being, in a 1 and done scenario, it does not mean the best team always wins the championship. The fact that freaking Kansas wins this conference year in and year out speaks volumes what a great coach Bill Self is. Or I guess to use your example, how embarrassing the rest of the teams in the conference are.

Just because guy does not win the national championship every does not diminish his legacy or a programs legacy.


I find it ironic, we finally split the regular season against them, and the first place some choose to go is to tear down their program. Never understood that logic, but carry on.
 
Agree with this notion. Not necessarily the best team wins the National Championship mentality. There always that element of luck, injuries, ect that plays a role whether a team can run the table in March Madness. Make no bones about it, you have to be talented to be king, but I think especially in College Basketball it's getting that lucky break as well.. What seed was UCONN last year? My point exactly. Really don't care where we are seeded..


fsanford said:
Duke lost to a 15 seed. Arizona, Syracuse, IOWA STATE, all lost to 15th seeds.

There is lots of pressure especially on blue blood programs in the tournament, and those teams have the biggest targets on their back.

I heard a comment from Dan Schulman today, he said, if the Stanley cup playoff, NBA finals or MLB playoff's were a 1 and done how many different champions we would have. Heck last year the LA Kings were down 3-0 to the Sharks and came back and won it all.

Point being, in a 1 and done scenario, it does not mean the best team always wins the championship. The fact that freaking Kansas wins this conference year in and year out speaks volumes what a great coach Bill Self is. Or I guess to use your example, how embarrassing the rest of the teams in the conference are.

Just because guy does not win the national championship every does not diminish his legacy or a programs legacy.


I find it ironic, we finally split the regular season against them, and the first place some choose to go is to tear down their program. Never understood that logic, but carry on.
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This loss is not a big deal. ISU played hard and did some things well but KU played about as perfect as you can. It's the Tech loss that hurts. They are going to have to pick up an unexpected road win to make up for that loss. I think at KSU, at OSU, at TCU are all winnable games. It would be great if they could either win at Texas or at OU. If they go 3-2 on the road and win out at home I think they will get 2nd place. I think to even have a shot at sharing the title they need to go 4-1 on the road.
 
Cyinthenorth said:
The press only works if it's ran to perfection. Yes we got a couple turnovers off of it, but it seemed like some, and I'll single out Naz specifically, were out of position time and again. KU coughed it up once or twice but caught on pretty fast
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Agreed, which is why it would be interesting to just throw it on for 1possession after a ft or something. Initially it really throws teams off.
 
twocoach said:
Name one coach that has more tourney wins than Bill Self since he got to Kansas. I'll wait.
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I would be interested in seeing these stats. My guess is that the top 6 would be Williams, Coach K, Self, Calipari, Pitino, and Izzo. Relative to KU's regular season success over the last 12 years, its post season performance has been mildly disappointing. But it's not as if we've been bad in the tourney - we are one of the best. It's just that in the regular season under Self, KU has been THE best and so expectations are high. But I think it is more accurate to say Self overachieves in the regular season than it is to say he underachieves in the tournament.

But certainly, ISU fans (or any fan base in the Big 12 for that matter) are in no position to criticize KU's postseason success.
 
Putting too much emphasis on a team's success in a crapshoot 1amd done tournament is lame.

That said, all tourney victories are not the same; seeding has to be taken into account. A 1 seed going 1-1 is a total failure. A 16 going 1-1 is a spectacular success.
 
Tuco posted "I'd be more than a little worried about how dialed in ISU will be against a team they view as beneath them in the ncaa tourney".

I recognized KU's Championships, impressive no doubt. But for him to preach to the Clones about under performing in the tournament is a bit much.
 
Dingus said:
Putting too much emphasis on a team's success in a crapshoot 1amd done tournament is lame.

That said, all tourney victories are not the same; seeding has to be taken into account. A 1 seed going 1-1 is a total failure. A 16 going 1-1 is a spectacular success.
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As a fan, it is definitely more disappointing to lose in the second round as a 2 seed than as a 7 seed. But overall, the team that lost as a 2 seed had a better season.
 
Bigman38 said:
What would the difference be between a Kentucky fan and an ISU fan making the same criticisim?
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Kentucky fans criticizing KU's postseason success is like one supermodel telling another supermodel that her nose is too big. ISU fans criticizing KU's postseason success is like an ugly girl telling a supermodel that her nose is too big.
 
I'm pretty disappointed in this loss, honestly. Yes, I know winning at KU is tough but this was our worst showing in Lawrence since 2011. The last three years we've put up a good fight there but last night I turned the TV off with six minutes to play because we were getting blown out. Lots of missed layups on our end and lots of open threes for them.

One thing I'm slowly starting to come to grips with is that we are not a particularly deep team after all. McKay does a lot of nice things for us but is pretty challenged offensively outside of dunking the ball (and he missed one of those last night), because of his poor ball-handling skills.

Nader is sometimes a world-beater (Iowa, West Virginia, TCU) but in most games he is a non-factor like he was last night. Thomas has not done anything good since the Okie State game. His problem seems to be that the game is moving too fast for him. Sometimes he'll get the ball with a little daylight between himself and the defender, but can't release the ball quickly enough to feel comfortable pulling the trigger.

I'm not sure what to think of Edozie at this point, other than that his apparent success in the non-conference must have been a fluke because Fred doesn't have any faith in him to play in conference games.
 
PullnPray said:
Kentucky fans criticizing KU's postseason success is like one supermodel telling another supermodel that her nose is too big. ISU fans criticizing KU's postseason success is like an ugly girl telling a supermodel that her nose is too big.
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That makes sense if you're a coach or player. Otherwise it sounds like a bail out response when someone brings up a legitimate criticisim.
 
Spanky said:
Tuco posted "I'd be more than a little worried about how dialed in ISU will be against a team they view as beneath them in the ncaa tourney". I recognized KU's Championships, impressive no doubt. But for him to preach to the Clones about under performing in the tournament is a bit much.
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I am not preaching to anyone. I am just a little concerned about the fact that ISU has had multiple losses this year where ISU players have come out and stated in post-game interviews that they didn't take the opponent seriously. I have seen a few KU teams that had multiple games in a season where they had the exact same thing and both of those seasons ('10 7 '11) ended earlier than they could have given the talent on the rosters. Past experience makes me very nervous when I hear teams making comments like that multiple times through a season. If you're not worried about that, that's fine.
 
Bigman38 said:
That makes sense if you're a coach or player. Otherwise it sounds like a bail out response when someone brings up a legitimate criticisim.
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Fine, let me rephrase. ISU fans criticizing KU's postseason performance is like the boyfriend of an ugly girl telling the boyfriend of a supermodel that his girlfriend's nose is too big.
 
Losing to them, and looking bad doing it is never fun. I hate that they are primed to get number 11 in a row. Meanwhile, we have a lot to play for, but a lot of work to do. The 2 losses predicted or the 4 wouldn't surprise me the rest of the way. I still don't know of what this team will be.
I know I hate Kansas.
 
Bigman38 said:
That makes sense if you're a coach or player. Otherwise it sounds like a bail out response when someone brings up a legitimate criticisim.
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It's a legitimate concern TO YOU. It's a few minor bumps in the road over the course of history to me. If the worst season we have is losing a round or two earlier than a top seed is projected to lose then it kind of makes me a jerk to complain about it, doesn't it? People complain that KU fans are entitled jerks yet you are encouraging me to behave in an entitled jerk fashion. Make the next 22 consecutive tourneys and you will find that ISU will have a same pattern of peaks and valleys in tourney success compared to their seed. Your perspective will be different even 10+ years from now than it is right now just 3-4 years in to the Hoiberg era.
 
twocoach said:
It's a legitimate concern TO YOU. It's a few minor bumps in the road over the course of history to me. If the worst season we have is losing a round or two earlier than a top seed is projected to lose then it kind of makes me a jerk to complain about it, doesn't it? People complain that KU fans are entitled jerks yet you are encouraging me to behave in an entitled jerk fashion. Make the next 22 consecutive tourneys and you will find that ISU will have a same pattern of peaks and valleys in tourney success compared to their seed. Your perspective will be different even 10+ years from now than it is right now just 3-4 years in to the Hoiberg era.
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I'm not concerned about KU consistently underperforming in the tournament, just making an observation. I'm sure if it becomes a pattern for Hoiberg I'd start telling myself the same things.

Side note, do you have a single post that isn't a backhanded shot at ISU? With PullnPray's posts I'm not sure it's just a you thing, maybe it's just a KU fan thing.
 
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