Hoiberg's Recruiting

[jkclone]

This x 1,000. For those of you saying CSP can't coach, maybe these players don't fit his style. He obviously prefers a defensive-oriented team, and we have been used to 80+ points per night, never mind how many stops we get.

For most of you, Prohm's biggest fault is that he isn't Fred Hoiberg.

Seriously stop with this. Prohm underachieved at Murray State only making the tournament what 1/5 years with two NBA caliber point guards. At Murray State he was more offensively focused than Fred. Obviously he's trying to focus more on defense now but he isn't some defensive mastermind or anything.

He came in as the guy who wasn't going to need a learning curve.

 

[acgclone]

A lot of people say "Prohm made it as far in the tourney as Fred ever did"..... Well yes, but he also did it with the players Fred handed him. I realize Fred was upset by UAB, but in the tourney, crap like that happens. It's also important to remember we lost Niang and still had to go through UNC to get to the Sweet 16 with Fred (still gave the Uconn all they could handle), whereas Prohm has a much easier road to make it to the second weekend.

Regardless of who our coach is, in 5 tourney appearances, I can live with one first round upset, 2 Sweet 16's and 2 round of 32's.

The Fred vs Prohm thing is getting tired, but I don't see the need to blame this year on Fred either.

This is year two of the Prohm era. He was still handed Morris, Naz, Thomas and Burton from this current team. By year two of the Fred era, he had brought in a bunch of studs.

Prohm seems to be laying a good foundation with Lewis, Wigginton, Lard and McNeill. I'll be really interested to see if he can supplement with 1-2 serious difference makers this off season from the Juco or transfer market.

 

[awd4cy]

A lot of people say "Prohm made it as far in the tourney as Fred ever did"..... Well yes, but he also did it with the players Fred handed him. I realize Fred was upset by UAB, but in the tourney, crap like that happens. It's also important to remember we lost Niang and still had to go through UNC to get to the Sweet 16 with Fred (still gave the Uconn all they could handle), whereas Prohm has a much easier road to make it to the second weekend.

Regardless of who our coach is, in 5 tourney appearances, I can live with one first round upset, 2 Sweet 16's and 2 round of 32's.

The Fred vs Prohm thing is getting tired, but I don't see the need to blame this year on Fred either.

This is year two of the Prohm era. He was still handed Morris, Naz, Thomas and Burton from this current team. By year two of the Fred era, he had brought in a bunch of studs.

Prohm seems to be laying a good foundation with Lewis, Wigginton, Lard and McNeill. I'll be really interested to see if he can supplement with 1-2 serious difference makers this off season from the Juco or transfer market.

Exactly, and with the Clyburn year we had Babb get injured and were very close to beating a very good Ohio State team to move to the Sweet 16 in a very wide open bracket. Year before that we ran into one of the best college basketball teams of all time in Kentucky. Fred had a lot of bad luck in the tourney.

Prohm on the other hand is going to get a pass by many for a very long time for beating 2 double digit seeds in what I hope isn't his only NCAA tournament appearance.

 

[Cyclonefan710]

a team starting 5 seniors and you blame the coach from 2 years ago that we don't have many young guys contributing.

Hoibergs lack of recruiting a big certainly isn't helping Prohm and it gave him very little margin for error on the recruiting trail. It would have been nice to have one capabable big on the roster that wasn't a senior when Prohm came in.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

People are complaining about Fred's recruiting when Prohms best recruit is a cheerleader...

The 2017 class is literally Prohm's first full recruiting cycle and he's crushing it! You couple Fred's lack of recruiting for 2 years with him leaving in June and that put's Prohm in a really tough spot. I don't get why that is so hard to comprehend! Could SP be doing things differently? Sure, but to sit here and say that he is "killing Hilton Magic" and that he "can't coach" isn't a fair assessment at this point. Prohm had to go all in on a couple of high risk guys and a couple of grad transfers in hopes of hitting a home run and it didn't work out. He was desperate to fill holes and I don't get why that's so hard to understand.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Exactly, and with the Clyburn year we had Babb get injured and were very close to beating a very good Ohio State team to move to the Sweet 16 in a very wide open bracket. Year before that we ran into one of the best college basketball teams of all time in Kentucky. Fred had a lot of bad luck in the tourney.

Prohm on the other hand is going to get a pass by many for a very long time for beating 2 double digit seeds in what I hope isn't his only NCAA tournament appearance.

Yeah, that UAB draw was a real ball buster.

 

[awd4cy]

Yeah, that UAB draw was a real ball buster.

Nice. Hang on to one upset in the 4 times he made the tourney. In any of the other instances, do you feel we greatly underachieved in the tourney? I'm sure you will appreciate Hoiberg's tourney success a little more after missing the tourney this year and sitting at the end of next year at 14-18.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Nice. Hang on to one upset in the 4 times he made the tourney. In any of the other instances, do you feel we greatly underachieved in the tourney? I'm sure you will appreciate Hoiberg's tourney success a little more after missing the tourney this year and sitting at the end of next year at 14-18.

I don't disagree but my point is that you have to take the bad with the good.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

A lot of people say "Prohm made it as far in the tourney as Fred ever did"..... Well yes, but he also did it with the players Fred handed him. I realize Fred was upset by UAB, but in the tourney, crap like that happens. It's also important to remember we lost Niang and still had to go through UNC to get to the Sweet 16 with Fred (still gave the Uconn all they could handle), whereas Prohm has a much easier road to make it to the second weekend.

Regardless of who our coach is, in 5 tourney appearances, I can live with one first round upset, 2 Sweet 16's and 2 round of 32's.

The Fred vs Prohm thing is getting tired, but I don't see the need to blame this year on Fred either.

This is year two of the Prohm era. He was still handed Morris, Naz, Thomas and Burton from this current team. By year two of the Fred era, he had brought in a bunch of studs.

Prohm seems to be laying a good foundation with Lewis, Wigginton, Lard and McNeill. I'll be really interested to see if he can supplement with 1-2 serious difference makers this off season from the Juco or transfer market.

I hate to be the one to say it but Naz just isn't very good. Standing in the corner and playing off of Niang was his game. Now he's being asked to play a much more significant role in the offense and he's been pretty disappointing in that role. Burton is a dumpster fire and he's maybe had 2 games all year where the good plays have out weighed the bad. I feel like our fan base has over estimated the talent on this team and I was guilty of this as well.

 

[jkclone]

I hate to be the one to say it but Naz just isn't very good. Standing in the corner and playing off of Niang was his game. Now he's being asked to play a much more significant role in the offense and he's been pretty disappointing in that role. Burton is a dumpster fire and he's maybe had 2 games all year where the good plays have out weighed the bad. I feel like our fan base has over estimated the talent on this team and I was guilty of this as well.

Naz's shot isn't there anymore but he has shown more by slashing to the basket. I had hoped he could do both but he really does something we don't necessarily have other than Babb.

 

[cbclone16]

I hate to be the one to say it but Naz just isn't very good. Standing in the corner and playing off of Niang was his game. Now he's being asked to play a much more significant role in the offense and he's been pretty disappointing in that role. Burton is a dumpster fire and he's maybe had 2 games all year where the good plays have out weighed the bad. I feel like our fan base has over estimated the talent on this team and I was guilty of this as well.

Didn't want to be the one to say this, but I completely agree with this. My comment last night was that he plays more like a freshman than he does a 5th year senior. How many lay-ups can you miss in one season and how many times can you drive into a crowd of people before you stop doing it?

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Naz's shot isn't there anymore but he has shown more by slashing to the basket. I had hoped he could do both but he really does something we don't necessarily have other than Babb.

I get that he has shown more ability to get to the rim but if he can't hit the open 3 and passes on open looks that used to kill defenses than he is completely ineffective for us. He's getting too many minutes right now.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Didn't want to be the one to say this, but I completely agree with this. My comment last night was that he plays more like a freshman than he does a 5th year senior. How many lay-ups can you miss in one season and how many times can you drive into a crowd of people before you stop doing it?

He's completely out of control with the ball in his hands. He tried to go behind his back in traffic last night and I think we know how that worked out. He just doesn't have the handle to try to play that type of game.

 

[jkclone]

I get that he has shown more ability to get to the rim but if he can't hit the open 3 and passes on open looks that used to kill defenses than he is completely ineffective for us. He's getting too many minutes right now.

People have been ******** that we only have spot up shooters.

The point is we have top 25 talent and frankly are nowhere close to playing like that.

 

[NoCreativity]

Darion Williams - St Johns when Hoiberg left.
Carter - best towel waiver we have.
Ernst - gone
Malou - didn't make it.
Holden - miss
Bowie - Small forward, miss
Burton - Small forward
Lard - in late.
Young - freshman
Kassango - sitting out

ISU is currently 1 for our last 10 big man commits. 3 will be here next year still, but to whiff on that many in a row is terrible. Some is due to Fred leaving, some Prohm misses, who we get this spring will be 100% on Prohm.

I like his recruiting and think when he gets his guys in there, he'll be fine. Need to get at least one or two contributors down low this spring and hope 1 or 2 of Lard, Young, Kassango can step up.

I agree on all those guys being misses and not contributing. What Im really getting tired of hearing is "We'll be fine once he gets his guys here, hes bringing in a couple 4-star players".

For some reason people around here think he's so much better at recruiting than Hoiberg when I dont see any evidence of that. Niang, Thomas, and Morris were all 4-star guys in case anyone forgot.

When looking at recruiting classes you have to take all things into consideration. Hoiberg was able to secure talent through high school, juco, and transfers.

Heres a little something to think about, guys like Royce and Kane ended up being the equivalent to one and done 5-star guys, Clyburn and BDJ I would put up there with 4, maybe even 5-star recruits when you compare them to freshman ranked that high. Burton and Nader were both 4-stars coming out of high school. Im too lazy to look back at guys like Allen and Lucious, but I assume they were both highly recruited out of high school since Michigan State took them at a time they were competing for national championships.

Fast forward to Prohm, who missed on a few guys, landed Holden and Bowie who are both huge busts, has nothing of note sitting out this year and we havent heard of any transfers yet. Yeah, Lard and Wiggington seem to be huge gets but neither has played a minute of basketball yet.

The point Im trying to make is I dont see any indication Prohm is a better recruiter at this stage and if he is his coaching is certainly not up to par.

Like another poster pointed out, the Big 12 is only gettin tougher, Kansas, Baylor, and West Viginia will continue to be at the top, teams like TCU and Tech seem to have really solid coacing hires and will continue to get better, OSU already is showing improvement with Underwoods system. Oklahoma is in a rebuilding phase. We might quickly find ourselves back in the 8-10 range of this conference if Prohm isnt able to put something together.

 

[NoCreativity]

I hate to be the one to say it but Naz just isn't very good. Standing in the corner and playing off of Niang was his game. Now he's being asked to play a much more significant role in the offense and he's been pretty disappointing in that role. Burton is a dumpster fire and he's maybe had 2 games all year where the good plays have out weighed the bad. I feel like our fan base has over estimated the talent on this team and I was guilty of this as well.

Naz and Burton have been fine, inconsistent at times, but lets not act like they suck.

Naz is actually averaging 15 a game which is a career high. I dont know if watched the last few years but he has never been someone that is going to carry the team to victories like Niang. Hes been a solid role player, does everything pretty well, will be remembered for hitting some huge shots for us and being a solid teammate and vocal leader.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

People have been ******** that we only have spot up shooters.

The point is we have top 25 talent and frankly are nowhere close to playing like that.

People have been ******** that we only have spot up shooters.

The point is we have top 25 talent and frankly are nowhere close to playing like that.

I disagree, we don't have top 25 talent. We don't have a post presence, Burton hurts us more than he helps, and Naz isn't very good. The sooner everyone figures out that there is no such thing as good Burton/bad Burton and that Naz is nothing more than a role player the pain of this season will start to ease.

 

[Cyclonepride]

This x 1,000. For those of you saying CSP can't coach, maybe these players don't fit his style. He obviously prefers a defensive-oriented team, and we have been used to 80+ points per night, never mind how many stops we get.

For most of you, Prohm's biggest fault is that he isn't Fred Hoiberg.

I agree with your sentiments, though I think his teams will be less free flowing and more disciplined. I think he's trying to allow for the free flow that the players have been used to playing under, while instilling a little common sense and a little more attention to defense.

 

[NoCreativity]

I disagree, we don't have top 25 talent. We don't have a post presence, Burton hurts us more than he helps, and Naz isn't very good. The sooner everyone figures out that there is no such thing as good Burton/bad Burton and that Naz is nothing more than a role player the pain of this season will start to ease.

Lol, ok, its settled, Naz and Burton suck, should probably bench them in favor of Jacolby Long and Greder at this point.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Naz and Burton have been fine, inconsistent at times, but lets not act like they suck.

Naz isn't very good and to say that Burton has been "inconsistent at times" is a HUGE understatement. I give Naz credit for not letting his struggles shooting the ball carry over to the defensive end. Burton is a liability on both ends of the floor and I don't know how that can even be argued.