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Future Final Four for ISU WBB?

C

cydney

Member
Mar 14, 2011
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Setting the loss aside and thinking to the future, especially given the talent coming back and coming in, what will it take for ISU WBB to make it to the Final Four? Can this be a realistic goal, like it seems to be for MBB now?

Will setting that as a goal, not just a dream, get this program and team to the next level?
 
To start... one key area to make this happen is more creative shooting. Like Niang. Maybe the motto is, shoot like Niang. Bad shooting was an excuse too often this season. The team has to figure out how to make a greater array of shots. The great ISU WBB players put the ball up in various ways and unique ways. The great players in WBB, especially not national POY-caliber, have scored in many ways. Doug McDermott is a national POY because of his versatility. It came from practice, and hard work, and study, all things that ISU WBB can do.
 
cydney said:
Setting the loss aside and thinking to the future, especially given the talent coming back and coming in, what will it take for ISU WBB to make it to the Final Four? Can this be a realistic goal, like it seems to be for MBB now?

Will setting that as a goal, not just a dream, get this program and team to the next level?
Click to expand...

I would settle for a return to the "top 25" level next year. We aren't there now.
 
Until we recruit some real athletic types this will remain the typical year.
 
There's not much parity in women's basketball. In general, to be a Final Four team, in most seasons you need to be at worst a top 8 team in the nation.
 
Tornado man said:
I would settle for a return to the "top 25" level next year. We aren't there now.
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You may have missed the point of the post. Unless you say we would not do things differently when aiming to be a top 25 team compared to a final four team. Or maybe you are saying we cannot be a final four team, so should be satisfied with a top 25 goal. I would then argue we will never be a final four team. We have been a top 25 team for a number of years in the past 15 years and not made the next jump. Is it just not possible?
 
All you have to do is watch UConn ND, Stanford and others and its pretty obvious what kind of players are needed. ISU has had some great players through the years but only 1 or 2 here and there. We need 3 or 4 great players playing on the same team to have a chance in my view.
 
Next year hinges on having a post emerge. Clearly guard court should only be better with all returning and adding Bell and Durr.

For goodness sake lets get some depth to have some options off the bench too. I adore Fallon and Kidd, but they have limitations.

Final all four caliber could be possible In Jadda/Seanna senior season. Just got to have talent and experience.

UConn/Notre Dame etc have talent and at the jr sr levels.
 
casey1973 said:
All you have to do is watch UConn ND, Stanford and others and its pretty obvious what kind of players are needed. ISU has had some great players through the years but only 1 or 2 here and there. We need 3 or 4 great players playing on the same team to have a chance in my view.
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Good point. Can ISU do this by getting several Doug McDermott-type players to develop, or is the only answer to be UConn?
 
cydney said:
Setting the loss aside and thinking to the future, especially given the talent coming back and coming in, what will it take for ISU WBB to make it to the Final Four? Can this be a realistic goal, like it seems to be for MBB now?

Will setting that as a goal, not just a dream, get this program and team to the next level?
Click to expand...


NO.
 
IMHO, Cyclone Kool Aid is like fine single malt scotch in that you sip it, not guzzle it. Not trying to pee on your Cheerios here. I know from your posts you are an enthusiastic supporter and an extremely optimist fan. My take is a little more measured and objective after almost 20 years of following along. When ISU first emerged as a program to be noticed and had those Sweet 16 and Elite 8 runs I thought we could build on that and get the recruits that might put us over the top to become an elite program. Never happened and I think now that that lost opportunity is just that, lost. Even when you get to the mountain it can be a quick tumble down again (see Oklahoma). WBB isn't like MBB where there is enough talent to go around and mid majors can Final Four and dance with the blue bloods. The disparity between the elites and the rest of NCAA pack is huge.

I hope we can bounce back to being a true top 25 and build on that. Next years class looks to be a good start on getting our **** together recruiting (maybe two good classes in a row). Assuming no key player quits, we lose only one player but are going to rely heavily on two sophomores and a bunch of freshman. Our next year seniors (taking off the Cyclone tinted glasses) are average Big 12 talent and you can't expect them to suddenly be all Big 12 as seniors. If the freshman prove to be Big 12 ready and if we find a team leader and if no one quits we should be a better team next year and maybe build on that. Best case is that one of the freshman is a team heart and soul type leader and we have a .500+ Big 12.

Of course everything in my mini-ramble here is all just "on paper" speculation. If you want the simple summary than my answer is no, Bill Fennelly will never take us to a Final Four appearance.
 
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give these new classes time. I am a bit worried about 2015 class though w no verbals.

We've been to 8 straight ncaas. Only a few programs can say that.
 
If you were to select, say, 8-10 ISU WBB players from the last 20 years and put them on a team together, with the goal of making a final four, who would they be and why?

Also, which of them were final four caliber when they entered the program?

However, maybe it's not possible given changes in the game.
 
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cydney said:
If you were to select, say, 8-10 ISU WBB players from the last 20 years and put them on a team together, with the goal of making a final four, who would they be and why?

Also, which of them were final four caliber when they entered the program?

However, maybe it's not possible given changes in the game.
Click to expand...

I am not smart enough to pick a best five for on court balance and chemistry etc but my first five would be Poppens, Welle, Taylor, Medders and Lacey based on careers at ISU and total all around mental and physical toughness.

The next 3 or 5 could come from any of a number of Cyclone favorites.
 
BoxsterCy said:
IMHO, Cyclone Kool Aid is like fine single malt scotch in that you sip it, not guzzle it. Not trying to pee on your Cheerios here. I know from your posts you are an enthusiastic supporter and an extremely optimist fan. My take is a little more measured and objective after almost 20 years of following along. When ISU first emerged as a program to be noticed and had those Sweet 16 and Elite 8 runs I thought we could build on that and get the recruits that might put us over the top to become an elite program. Never happened and I think now that that lost opportunity is just that, lost. Even when you get to the mountain it can be a quick tumble down again (see Oklahoma). WBB isn't like MBB where there is enough talent to go around and mid majors can Final Four and dance with the blue bloods. The disparity between the elites and the rest of NCAA pack is huge.

I hope we can bounce back to being a true top 25 and build on that. Next years class looks to be a good start on getting our **** together recruiting (maybe two good classes in a row). Assuming no key player quits, we lose only one player but are going to rely heavily on two sophomores and a bunch of freshman. Our next year seniors (taking off the Cyclone tinted glasses) are average Big 12 talent and you can't expect them to suddenly be all Big 12 as seniors. If the freshman prove to be Big 12 ready and if we find a team leader and if no one quits we should be a better team next year and maybe build on that. Best case is that one of the freshman is a team heart and soul type leader and we have a .500+ Big 12.

Of course everything in my mini-ramble here is all just "on paper" speculation. If you want the simple summary than my answer is no, Bill Fennelly will never take us to a Final Four appearance.
Click to expand...

Emily Durr is the kind of player who could do that. However, you look at history here many top flight players deferred to upperclass teammates. Bolte, Chistofferson, and most recently Buckley are examples. I'd have to say Megan Taylor, Angie Welle, and one recent example in Poppens did not defer much of anything.
 
1. We need deeper bench and probably the willingness of BF to play more players, not just 7-8 players.
2. More "athletic" or "physical" players. Judging on how the game has evolved and how the games are called, it seems a lot of times that we are less physical.

You also need to take into account that recruiting WBB players is different from recruiting MBB players. The goal for most of MBB players is to go pro, not education. For WBB players, the primary goal will be education. It'll be hard to compete against Stanford, Cal, USC, etc.

The landscape is also different: if a MBB player wants to transfer, there's a lot of GOOD programs that will take him instantly. It's not the case with a WBB player. A lot of WBB players choose the "safe" or less risky choice.

The rest depends on luck to get to Final 4.

So we're fighting on different fronts here: location, educational reputation, system, etc.

Not that it can't be done. The stars need to align correctly to make this happen.
 
A couple of good questions posed here. Addressing the first about the ability of ISU to gain entrance to the final four. There are a number of factors that don't point that direction.
1. Too many scholarships and too few (relatively) top flight players.
The current women's basketball layout is much like college football before scholarship limits were put into place. Schools like Oklahoma, USC, and Nebraska could all stock pile the talent which led to their dominance. Women's basketball is like that now. If you look at the top 8 teams, they have a stock of talent that could start at nearly any school in the country. Greenfield is a prime example as is the Stokes at UConn. Both would start for ISU and both play bit roles on their teams.
2. Cheating. I'm being blunt here, but some of the practices employed by a few "elite" teams (uhm...Baylor anyone?) are ones that ISU will never employ. That provides an edge to some and not others.
3. Increased competition. In the "glory days" of Welle and Taylor, there weren't as many dominating players or programs out there. We were blessed with some amazing players that could score (as someone else posted) in a variety of ways. We had five threats and 2-3 off the bench that could contribute. Now every team in our conference has some good/great players and the sell to come to ISU is even tougher.

How can we get there? I firmly believe its possible for this program to get there. How?
1. Recruiting. We need more classes like this year's and the incoming class that bring size and speed. I read someone else's post that we need a post and guards in every class. If you looked at Stanford yesterday they were able to put five players on the court at the same time who were over 6' tall.
2. Outstanding coaching. Adjusting the team's game to what is happening so we stay ahead of the curve. Add some interesting twists to what we do rather than being predictable. The three is a trademark of ISU basketball, but we need dominating inside play and people who can hit the mid-range jumper. We need to know how to set vicious screens and be willing to smack the other team in the face. Our offense is a bit predictable right now mainly because of how we implement it.
3. Related to recruiting, build depth. Next year could be interesting as we might very well have a guard court that is six deep. I'm hoping it is deep enough that it might push Moody to either get better/more consistent or come off the bench. As I mentioned in recruiting, getting a post a year is critical. IF the class next year meets expectations and hype, we could have the deepest team we've had in quite some time. Depth means fresh legs and more threats.
 
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