For the Lebron haters...

What? You think last years should matter in this years MVP voting? Is this for serious?

If you only think regular season matters and we ignore the legacy made in the playoffs then LeBron isn't much better on D than Durant or he'd have more blocks and rebounds than KD. LeBron on D for 82 games is nothing out of the ordinary for a guy his size getting those minutes. LeBron's playoff defense recently is something so awesome I'd say it's never-before-seen.

I'm sure the good matters and the bad doesn't.
 
Well something doesn't add up then. In the regular season the most awesome defender ever had less rebounds and blocks than a horrible defender (just going by what's being said here, it doesn't make sense but I'll play along).

We can't bring up playoff history when discussing MVP according to your own rules, so LeBron's world class lock down playoff defense isn't a factor.

Which is it then when voting for MVP this year? LeBron's playoff defense matters and his finals choke 10 months ago matters. Or Durant's defense is similar to LeBron's defense but voters ignore the biggest choke ever 10 months ago.


wow. This pretty much sums it all up. I could have never read a single one of your posts before, just read this one post, and have you pegged. dead to rights.
 
Spoelstra is not overrated. He is underrated because evryone thinks he does nothing.

He has been underrated for a while because everyone says he is horrible but did you hear the announcers last night? They were suddenly heaping tons of praise on him as a truly exceptional coach. That's funny because just last series people were saying he should be the first to go. Not sure he became a great coach in a matter of two weeks.
 
I have always loved watching Lebron but have never really liked him very much. He does seem to have grown up some this year though. I think he finally did what people have been wanting him to do in the playoffs, continue to attack the rim. He would do it sporadically but then other times just kind of drift and settle for shots but in these playoffs he was much more assertive.
 
Well something doesn't add up then. In the regular season the most awesome defender ever had less rebounds and blocks than a horrible defender (just going by what's being said here, it doesn't make sense but I'll play along).

We can't bring up playoff history when discussing MVP according to your own rules, so LeBron's world class lock down playoff defense isn't a factor.

Which is it then when voting for MVP this year? LeBron's playoff defense matters and his finals choke 10 months ago matters. Or Durant's defense is similar to LeBron's defense but voters ignore the biggest choke ever 10 months ago.

Dear God man. You'll survive if you admit you were wrong, it'll be ok.

When you have to resort to claiming rebounds and blocked shots show how good a defender someone is, well you've already lost the argument.
 
Scottie was a complete unknown when he came in to the league and joined the Bulls. Lebron, Wade, and Bosh were all All-Stars when they combined up, they actively searched out each other. Jordan played with what he got, and what he got eventually turned in to Scottie Pippen (a top 50 player). I don't ever recall Jordan actively trying to find other great players to team with, he was looking for other great players to beat.

Scottie Pippen was the #5 pick. He was not an unknown. Like I said, the Cavs never had any good picks while LeBron was there, especially the 5th.

If you only think regular season matters and we ignore the legacy made in the playoffs then LeBron isn't much better on D than Durant or he'd have more blocks and rebounds than KD. LeBron on D for 82 games is nothing out of the ordinary for a guy his size getting those minutes. LeBron's playoff defense recently is something so awesome I'd say it's never-before-seen.

I'm sure the good matters and the bad doesn't.

He has 2.7 more steals correct. Also, how many points did Durant allow people to score when compared to LeBron. If you ask any SF who they want to guard them between the two, it's going to be Durant. This isn't even an argument.
 
Well something doesn't add up then. In the regular season the most awesome defender ever had less rebounds and blocks than a horrible defender (just going by what's being said here, it doesn't make sense but I'll play along).

We can't bring up playoff history when discussing MVP according to your own rules, so LeBron's world class lock down playoff defense isn't a factor.

Which is it then when voting for MVP this year? LeBron's playoff defense matters and his finals choke 10 months ago matters. Or Durant's defense is similar to LeBron's defense but voters ignore the biggest choke ever 10 months ago.

Lebron was first team all-defense this year (and the 3 years prior). He also finished 4th in the defensive player of the year voting this year. Both of those are regular season awards. Also, it's ridiculous to assert that last year's playoffs should have any bearing whatsoever on this year's MVP voting.
 
Scottie Pippen was the #5 pick. He was not an unknown. Like I said, the Cavs never had any good picks while LeBron was there, especially the 5th.



He has 2.7 more steals correct. Also, how many points did Durant allow people to score when compared to LeBron. If you ask any SF who they want to guard them between the two, it's going to be Durant. This isn't even an argument.

I'm just saying LeBron amps up the defense for playoff games and people think he does that 4 quarters for 82 regular season games which is really inaccurate. I don't blame him, he plays a ton of minutes and is incredibly active. In a regular season game there's not a gigantic defensive difference between the two, most people brag they don't watch regular season ball and prefer college basketball. I don't, 90% of what I watch is NBA.

In the playoffs the last two years, LeBron James is THE BEST one on one defender I have ever seen including Jordan and anybody else. Does that make you feel better? But CyJack said we're not allowed to think about the playoffs in MVP voting. I think LeBron is clearly the best defender in the NBA when it counts, but CyJack says I have to vote on who plays the toughest defense just in 82 regular season games so maybe he's first team but not DPOTY.

I'd have voted LeBron for Defensive Player of the Year, I think it is a joke that Chandler won it. I'd have maybe pegged Chandler around 7th or 8th at best. But a big part of why I'd vote him defensive player of the year is because of the defense he shows in the playoffs, game to game for 82 it's no more dominant defense than what many other players give you...but that's because a guy like Luol Deng or Joakim Noah or Serge Ibaka are not asked or expected to do all the things LeBron is. When he's clearly focused on lockdown D, LeBron is the best in the game easily and quite possibly the best to ever play the game.
 
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Lebron is the best basketball player that has ever lived or will ever live and probably greater than any basketball player anyone could dream up in their imagination.
 
Lebron is the best basketball player that has ever lived or will ever live and probably greater than any basketball player anyone could dream up in their imagination.

It's not good enough until you say you like him. :twitcy:
 
MJ is the greatest to have played. LeBron is the greatest playing. Why don't we wait until they are in the same category to start comparing.
 
MJ is the greatest to have played. LeBron is the greatest playing. Why don't we wait until they are in the same category to start comparing.

Arguable. I would agree Jordan is the best to have played thus far, but I think you could make an argument for others. I also think LBJ could end up being a better player when its all said and done.
 
What else does HFCS need to do? He's said repeatedly that Lebron is the best player on the planet, and maybe the most talented ever. He seems to be the only one using actual stats to back up the opinion he has that Durant should have at least been in the discussion for MVP. So he doesn't like Lebron, Wade, or Riley and refuses to switch allegiances just due to one good playoff run. He continues to bring up last year's failure, but then says Lebron has redeemed himself with this year. I can't believe there are so many Heat fans in Iowa to get this offended.

To be clear, I've always like Lebron's game. I've liked the toughness Wade used to play with at Marquette and early in his career. I liked having Bosh on my fantasy teams when he was in Toronto. But I'm disgusted by the way they were assembled. If you're Karl Malone or Patrick Ewing or Zo Morning, and have one or two shots at a title and are no longer a featured star, by all means go somewhere that gives you the best chance. No one will begrudge Steve Nash for going to a contender this summer, but great teams have always been built through the draft and sometimes a trade for a young unestablished star to pair with a franchise player. Teams are supposed to be made by savvy GM's, not players conspiring to improve their brands.
 
4. Not sure why people think he is cocky. I can't remember a quote of him being cocky. Sure he puts on the angry face after a big play, but that is just being in the moment. Many players have characteristics like that after big plays.

Not 1. Not 2. Not 3. Not 4. Not 5. Not 6. Not 7. I have 8 reasons to think that he is a cocky player.
 
Arguable. I would agree Jordan is the best to have played thus far, but I think you could make an argument for others. I also think LBJ could end up being a better player when its all said and done.

Right. And you know something? I don't know if we can ever compare LJ to MJ. Different players, different positions. I think of LJ, right now as Magic without the rings and LJ has a hell of a lot more defensive capability. People forget that Magic was awful defensively but had people to protect him. In the early Jordan years he battled the stigma of not being able to win like Bird and Magic. You can look it up, it happened. He ditched that. I think Lebron will ditch that as well. GOAT? Probably not but he could be thes 2nd or 3rd GOAT when he's done.
 
What else does HFCS need to do? He's said repeatedly that Lebron is the best player on the planet, and maybe the most talented ever. He seems to be the only one using actual stats to back up the opinion he has that Durant should have at least been in the discussion for MVP. So he doesn't like Lebron, Wade, or Riley and refuses to switch allegiances just due to one good playoff run. He continues to bring up last year's failure, but then says Lebron has redeemed himself with this year. I can't believe there are so many Heat fans in Iowa to get this offended.

To be clear, I've always like Lebron's game. I've liked the toughness Wade used to play with at Marquette and early in his career. I liked having Bosh on my fantasy teams when he was in Toronto. But I'm disgusted by the way they were assembled. If you're Karl Malone or Patrick Ewing or Zo Morning, and have one or two shots at a title and are no longer a featured star, by all means go somewhere that gives you the best chance. No one will begrudge Steve Nash for going to a contender this summer, but great teams have always been built through the draft and sometimes a trade for a young unestablished star to pair with a franchise player. Teams are supposed to be made by savvy GM's, not players conspiring to improve their brands.

So you don't like the Celtics either, correct?

Everyone says Jordan never would have done that. Maybe you're right, but he didn't have to. A lot of guys have bailed to better teams after a stretch of not winning. Maybe it wasn't to the degree these guys did but I don't understand why it should be held against them.
 
Right. And you know something? I don't know if we can ever compare LJ to MJ. Different players, different positions. I think of LJ, right now as Magic without the rings and LJ has a hell of a lot more defensive capability. People forget that Magic was awful defensively but had people to protect him. In the early Jordan years he battled the stigma of not being able to win like Bird and Magic. You can look it up, it happened. He ditched that. I think Lebron will ditch that as well. GOAT? Probably not but he could be thes 2nd or 3rd GOAT when he's done.

And Magic Johnson had a reputation for choking in the playoffs for a while as well. People are way to quick to rush to judgement now, Magic shed the Tragic Johnson moniker, Jordan got by the Pistons and in the end they become nothing but a small footnote to all their accomplishments.
 
How do you feel about this guy now? Still hate him? Like him any better?

I felt pretty neutral about Labron until watching him play in the finals. Now I like him...he seems like a team guy and is a very humble winner. I'm not sure I'm a fan yet, but I he's a great player and I think deserves his day in the sun.

LOL you like him now that he's won. Everybody get on the bus!
 
Scottie Pippen was the #5 pick. He was not an unknown. Like I said, the Cavs never had any good picks while LeBron was there, especially the 5th.



He has 2.7 more steals correct. Also, how many points did Durant allow people to score when compared to LeBron. If you ask any SF who they want to guard them between the two, it's going to be Durant. This isn't even an argument.

Pippen was unknown to the general public. Nobody was watching Central Arkansas. His name came up in previews and such, I think, but all people really remember from stuff like that is "Oh, the kid from Central Arkansas."

Pippen was a victory for the Bulls and their scouting. People thought he could be solid or good, but nobody really forecasted what he turned into.

Your point about Cleveland is still solid.
 

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