Drunk Driving and Fake Science

[Chitowncy]

I'm not anti-science. I'm very pro-science. I just know enough science to know when it is being done incorrectly. And that is quite often these days. People who don't know as much are just prone to believe whatever they are told is correct and I like to point out when their assumptions are likely wrong.

Pro-science? You? Really? Correct me if I'm misstating your beliefs, but don't you believe climate change is not caused by human beings? It's pretty simple science really and if you had learned it at a foundational level before letting your biases influence your conclusion, or actually had a strong science background, you wouldn't attack climate change.

My apologies in advance if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression you were one of those who chooses to believe in science when it fits your worldview / political beliefs.

 

[ImJustKCClone]

IMO the answer is to keep the breathalyzers but they should got through a mandated calibration by an expert every so often. And the breathalyzer makers should have to have their code reviewed by outside experts also. And all the findings should be released. An audit of these things.

Nearly every piece of equipment requires maintenance, from airplanes and cargo ships on down to cars and much smaller items. Breathalyzers and any other unit of measurement should be treated the same, especially if the results are used in legal proceedings.

 

[keepngoal]

Nearly every piece of equipment requires maintenance, from airplanes and cargo ships on down to cars and much smaller items. Breathalyzers and any other unit of measurement should be treated the same, especially if the results are used in legal proceedings.

Imagine how hard it is to successfully subpoena the maintenance log for breathalyzers... and radar guns.

 

[isufbcurt]

Nearly every piece of equipment requires maintenance, from airplanes and cargo ships on down to cars and much smaller items. Breathalyzers and any other unit of measurement should be treated the same, especially if the results are used in legal proceedings.

I agree. I liken it to gas pumps. They have to be tested and certified every year to make sure you are getting the amount of fuel you are paying for. Something as important as a breathalyzer should be treated the same.

 

[isufbcurt]

Imagine how hard it is to successfully subpoena the maintenance log for breathalyzers... and radar guns.

See post #44

 

[BoxsterCy]

Don’t blame the science; the science isnt the problem. It’s an ugly intersection of corporate greed and unethical judicial system.

Mostly agree but think on the justice side they were looking for an objective tool and wanted to believe this was it so willing bought in. And once bought in they never ever back off, never. Also on the justice side the lack of calibrating and all is indefensible though. Trouble with the justice side is once they decide to nab you for something they never let go and will lie and cheat to convict because they "know" you are guilty. Downside is I don't think this has helped combat the deadly drunk drivers as much as it has nabbed a bunch of borderline level folks. But you nab a bunch of borderline folks and it looks like you are "doing something". I mean drunk driving deaths are down but at this point I don't know if that is just public awareness or enforcement or some combo platter.

 

[BoxsterCy]

I agree. I liken it to gas pumps. They have to be tested and certified every year to make sure you are getting the amount of fuel you are paying for. Something as important as a breathalyzer should be treated the same.

This. State dude came out every year and checked my dad's metered pumps at this bulk storage facility and on each of his trucks and affixed a new seal and license for the year.

 

[ImJustKCClone]

Imagine how hard it is to successfully subpoena the maintenance log for breathalyzers... and radar guns.

I'm not sure where you're going with this.
People need to demonstrate proficiency with equipment. It's why we have pilot licenses and drivers' licenses (with endorsements for specialized vehicles).
Equipment can "slide" if not properly maintained. It's why you run known check samples when you're analyzing samples in a lab. It's why you re-calibrate balances and pipettes to insure accurate measurements.
I don't see the difference in ensuring that breathalizers and radar guns should be properly maintained and operated by people who know what they're doing.

 

[ArgentCy]

Pro-science? You? Really? Correct me if I'm misstating your beliefs, but don't you believe climate change is not caused by human beings? It's pretty simple science really and if you had learned it at a foundational level before letting your biases influence your conclusion, or actually had a strong science background, you wouldn't attack climate change.

My apologies in advance if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression you were one of those who chooses to believe in science when it fits your worldview / political beliefs.

Like I said. There is a lot of junk science around these days. It's hard to distinguish between real science and propagandized science. You can read though the thread in the cave if you want. I posted plenty of science in that thread.

 

[ArgentCy]

I agree. I liken it to gas pumps. They have to be tested and certified every year to make sure you are getting the amount of fuel you are paying for. Something as important as a breathalyzer should be treated the same.

One would think that the courts would have solved that problem long ago. Obviously, it is not in their interests to have real accuracy. They know where the check is signed.

 

[VeloClone]

Imagine how hard it is to successfully subpoena the maintenance log for breathalyzers... and radar guns.

I can't speak to breathalyzers but as far as radar guns go, years ago each radar gun came with a tuning fork for testing the gun. It was supposed to be done at the start of every shift.

 

[BoxsterCy]

I am a big science belief guy but can't resist posting this cause we are talking science for profit here. If a science guy paid by Monsanto says "Hey, it's perfectly safe" and the university researchers say "This is dangerous ****" don't believe the Monsanto douche. The university dude could be wrong but he's not a corporate prostitute.

 

[BCClone]

Okay, now I'm confused. Did you intend to write algorhythm or allegory? I can't tell from your OP and the embeds in the replies to your post.

Crap - I'm so confused, I replied to the wrong damn post!

Don’t take a breathalyzer

 

[mdk2isu]

Don’t take a breathalyzer

Can KC even drive at her age?

I kid I kid

 

[CloneFan4]

An adult male is not at .08 from two light beers; wife might be though.

I see that now. Damn drivers ed propaganda

 

[ImJustKCClone]

Can KC even drive at her age?

I kid I kid

Per my license, for a little over three more years. After that, all bets are off.

 

[Al_4_State]

I feel like if you drink just Uber.

There are tons of places that don't have Uber.

But if this an option, I agree completely.

 

[TexCyted]

Imagine how hard it is to successfully subpoena the maintenance log for breathalyzers... and radar guns.

It is not difficult at all. An officers calibration log gets called into question all the time. Most officers calibrate their radar before each shift, their PBT is required to be calibrated every month, official machines are also calibrated monthly by certified individuals, they also have an internal check that is done before each use.

 

[ArgentCy]

https://www.fxnetworks.com/shows/the-weekly - It's the Guilty by Machine episode

I am not sure if you can watch online. It usually airs on Sundays at 9PM on FX.

I wasn't sure if I could find it but Sling has it right now (they only have ~5 episodes available at a time).

Pretty good episode that doesn't go into a lot of depth. A couple lines were pretty telling. Like the cop saying any guy could have 6-7 beers and be fine (ya right). I'd be pretty drunk depending on the beer and whether or not I'd eaten. Of course he wants to arrest people (it's not really ever been about safety).

And the inventor / scientist who rightly points out that this was never the intention of the devices. It is the legislatures fault for making them THE whole case and such a completely unrealistic and drastic line in the sand. Especially one that is arbitrary as we saw when everyone lowered to 0.08.

But hey, what's a few more people on welfare that were working and then get arrested for having two glasses of wine.

 

[Cyched]

When I was younger I was totally drunk as crap driving my boat. Got pulled over, pulled into the cops boat. Could barely stand up. I failed all the boat sobriety tests. He gave me the choice to take the breath test. I took it and passed. Blew a .06. I was totally drunk. The cop said "I think you are drunk and you failed the tests but the breathalyzer says otherwise. Have a good day sir. I was like WTF. How did I pass that. I didn't argue. BTW this was at Lake of the Ozarks coming out of party cove.

'Tis no man. 'Tis a remorseless drinking machine.