Masking agents, overhydration, and/or arriving late are things that are pretty easy to prove if they occur and would be specifically spelled out in the drug policy. We're talking about suspending someone for PEDs because they think it's more probable than not that they took them. We don't have proof of a positive test, and we don't have proof that he did something to circumvent the testing procedures, but look at him, he's a monster, there's no way he's not taking PEDs.
Brady Supposedly Destroyed Cell Phone
- Thread starter Stormin
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Positive tests for things like masking agents and overhydration are very much subject to "it's more likely than not" standards. It requires a tester to make a judgement call about how diluted a test may be, or how far it deviates from "normal" and judge whether it's more likely than not that the player has attempted to beat the test.
Yeah, but in the process of trying to gather facts to prove whether or not he knew the footballs were being deflated, Brady basically destroyed evidence he was asked to provide, on the same day he had a meeting with the guy gathering the facts.
He wasn't asked to provide his phone and I believe his lawyers had previously said he wouldn't give them his phone.
OK, well he was asked to provide access to the data on his phone. And, really, in my opinion he should not have to provide that to them if he doesn't want to.
Where I think he made his mistake was actually destroying the phone. That appears to be an act of a guilty man with something to hide. May or may not actually be the case, but it sure doesn't paint the picture of a guy with nothing to hide.
If Brady and his lawyers would have just continued to say "No, we don't want to grant access to his personal cell phone, he would like to keep his personal information private," I don't think people would have really blamed him for that.
But he went ahead and destroyed it to make sure that none of that information saw the light of day. That makes people a little more skeptical that maybe there was something damning on that phone.
"Appears" and "skeptical" don't seem like overly convincing words in terms of trying to prove wrong doing. But again, I do think he didn't fully cooperate with the investigation and can be punished for that in some way, but I think 4 games will be shown to not be at all consistent with NFL punishments in the past for similar actions.
The NFL isn't offering to reduce the suspension by half or more if they think they have a slam dunk here.
Really though this is bigger than Brady at this point IMO, he's just the perfect case for the NFLPA to challenge the league. You've got the poster boy of the NFL getting suspended 4 games with circumstantial evidence that is shaky at best. This is the anti-Goodell case they've dreamt of.
The NFL isn't offering to reduce the suspension by half or more if they think they have a slam dunk here.
Really though this is bigger than Brady at this point IMO, he's just the perfect case for the NFLPA to challenge the league. You've got the poster boy of the NFL getting suspended 4 games with circumstantial evidence that is shaky at best. This is the anti-Goodell case they've dreamt of.
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look at the terms they offered, though. It wasn't just "2 games and we're good." It required a full admission of guilt by Brady, and an apology, and if the apology was good enough, he could have reduced his suspension even more. They wanted him to lick their boots. There was no way Brady was going to go for that, and they knew it. It was an insulting offer. They're not stupid. You don't insult him if you don't have the goods to make the full suspension stick.
Agree. Destroying the phone is as bad as the NFL now coming up with all of the ball testing procedures that should have been in place to begin with. Gives credibilty to both sides.
Agree. The NFL did have choices then--- choices they never intended to use.
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Yeah, I'm not at all saying I think those types of words would hold up when it comes to the appeals or anything like that. I honestly know nothing about the court systems and what it takes to get a favorable judgement.
I'm just saying I think that Brady really crapped the bed by destroying the cell phone. Like you said, the NFL has no proof, but by him doing that, he gave them some pretty good ammo in their trying to paint the picture of guilt.
I'm with you in thinking that this is about WAY more than Tom Brady knowing/not knowing about deflated footballs at this point. Both sides are trying to prove a point in a big way.
I see the NFL has won the PR battle with people on here. He wasn't ever going to turn over the phone and didn't have to. He turned over call records and also emails and all texts between him and equipment guys were already in hands of NFL.
Still no proof the balls were illegally deflated. Not one. NFL never retracted the initial leaked information that was completely false.
Not only that but do you realize how many balls during cold games during the season are below the 12.5? And I would bet you could find similar statements from equipment guys from those teams about how the QB wants the balls deflated. Or how about hot games that Rogers plays in where the ball might be above the limit since he likes his at the max? I'm sure his equipment guys will tell you that he wants them inflated and he has (gasp) admitted he pushes the limit. So what the hell are we even talking about here. An arbitrary rule that is in place that the NFL surely didn't seem to care about and that it was known QBs either inflate or deflate on purpose and nobody cared. No evidence that Brady intentionally broke arbitrary rule yet they are now punishing him worse than if he knocked his GF out in an elevator? It has to be about Goodell's ego and his desire to be right and have power. Otherwise this has to be the stupidest thing I have ever seen. So utterly pointless and blown out of proportion
Still no proof the balls were illegally deflated. Not one. NFL never retracted the initial leaked information that was completely false.
Not only that but do you realize how many balls during cold games during the season are below the 12.5? And I would bet you could find similar statements from equipment guys from those teams about how the QB wants the balls deflated. Or how about hot games that Rogers plays in where the ball might be above the limit since he likes his at the max? I'm sure his equipment guys will tell you that he wants them inflated and he has (gasp) admitted he pushes the limit. So what the hell are we even talking about here. An arbitrary rule that is in place that the NFL surely didn't seem to care about and that it was known QBs either inflate or deflate on purpose and nobody cared. No evidence that Brady intentionally broke arbitrary rule yet they are now punishing him worse than if he knocked his GF out in an elevator? It has to be about Goodell's ego and his desire to be right and have power. Otherwise this has to be the stupidest thing I have ever seen. So utterly pointless and blown out of proportion
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How come the PSI of all of the Patriots balls was so much lower than the PSI of the Colts balls, when they were tested at halftime? Weren't they subject to the same conditions?
The data's right there in the report.
http://nesn.com/2015/05/read-the-entire-ted-wells-report-on-patriots-deflategate-controversy/
Every single one of the Pats balls tested significantly lower than the Colts balls. If cold weather caused the low readings, why didn't it affect both teams balls the same?
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Goodell's problem could be the guy he has do the investigation and punishment didn't have authority to do so under the collective bargaining agreement. He did that though so that he could hear the appeal and not someone else. Shady move that will draw the suspicion of the court. Also he was a witness called in the proceedings and therefor shouldn't have been making decision on appeal. Lastly the punishment is way overboard and abritratg and just as likely to get overturned as a lot of recent suspensions have
What were the readings of the Pats balls and Colts when the game started? If they didn't start out at the same pressure, why would you expect them to be the same?
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That could explain some variance, sure. But, no Colts balls showed more than a .8 PSI loss for the entire game. Some of the Pats balls lost almost 2 PSI in a single half. That's a disparity.
