He does a normal pull up jump shot inside the 3 point line. He's used it several times but appears to prefer probing and/or getting to the rim. The problem is he's been lacking aggression and confidence and turns it over too often.
Batemon & Toure
- Thread starter SolterraCyclone
- Start date
He has it. The most recent one I remember was at Utah on the baseline. He just doesn't use it for whatever reason.
Toure freshman vs Tamin freshman is pretty much the same picture, IMO.
I’m not complaining, I’m just proposing a strategic shift to try and advance as far as possible in the NCAA tourney, based on the analytics and eye test (obviously coaches have the locker room context I don’t have).
I absolutely want to retain both Toure and Batemon (and Pleta) for next year. I’m optimistic we can do that with Jefferson and Lipsey off the books. I’d love if Momcilovic would return too
IDK who on this staff helps with shooting form, but if they can work just half that magic on Toure he would be more than fine
I don't think anyone is suggesting that Batemon isn't comfortable coming off the bench or is demanding to start, nor does it require that to have a discussion about starting or minutes on a fan message board.
I can only speak for myself. I'm not advocating for necessarily changing the starting lineup now, as it is really late in the season. But it's not as though we really know that we have a case where either guy would play worse or better if the roles were reversed. We don't know because it hasn't happened. And this isn't exactly a "if ain't broke" situation. Over the last several games the team isn't playing that well, Toure's not playing well, and the team has been coming out of the gates pretty poorly.
All I'm saying is the idea that people keep bringing up because of Jones is that the whole "who is more comfortable starting vs. coming off the bench" question being some huge factor in deciding who starts is not normal at all. 99/100 the guy that's better starts and plays more. Once in a blue moon you might have a guy like Jones that is probably better than one of your three starting guards but comes off the bench. But that's pretty rare. However, I would say that we've never really had much time where Toure and Batemon have been neck in neck. Toure seemed pretty clearly better early in the year. Now it seems Batemon is pretty clearly better. Part of the roller coaster of freshmen I guess.
Maybe you stick with what worked early in the season and hope that Toure gets back to some aggression and confident play on offense. Maybe you swap the two guys' roles and hope that doesn't make things worse. Neither is optimal. It would be great if everybody was playing their best right now and it was clear how minutes should go. That's unfortunately not the case for ISU right now.
Well, nothing you can do in-season, at least not in March. After that it's like 1% deconstructing form and getting some drills that force it, then it's 99% getting metric **** tons of shots up with that form.
Form isn't a silver bullet, but there are some common things that help form be more repeatable and have less room for error.
A couple things about Haliburton. Now it's not so much a set shot as it is a one-motion shot with the early release on the way up rather than the old 90s jump shot. Now, Tyrese doesn't elevate much on his shot, so I guess you could say it's a little bit like that. But generally it's one of those Curry effect things.
The big change Haliburton has made in his shot was getting that guide elbow in. He used to chicken wing that thing way out. It can still work, but that would be hard to repeat and not sometimes get too much guide hand pressure on the ball.
Shooting form isn't magic, but it's all about taking out points that are more difficult to repeat and providing a little more room for error in repeatability.
Toure will be fine, but they do need to get that shot reworked and then he needs to tear it up in the offseason putting up tons of shots. I'm sure he will, and he'll kick ass next season.
Going to be interesting in the off season what happens with Milan. I assume that NIL offers will be coming to transfer along with NBA whispers. Otz can offer some NIL too along with continued opportunities here.
Didn't read whole thread, but it doesn't matter to me who starts. Who plays when it matters.
I think you could make an argument one of our most effective paths to jump on teams early is the combination of Toure and Lipsey to start the game with their ball pressure.
See if that rattles teams, creates turnovers and early success....ect.
I think you could make an argument one of our most effective paths to jump on teams early is the combination of Toure and Lipsey to start the game with their ball pressure.
See if that rattles teams, creates turnovers and early success....ect.
Yeah, I think that setting the tone with ball pressure is probably the most important thing. Batemon has improved enough defensively that it’s not even much of a drop off from Toure. And, Toure is pretty much unplayable on offense now. I don’t think that they should change the starters though. It’s too late for that.
We have seen the minutes and substitution pattern change. It used to be Heise coming in for Lipsey at the first media timeout. Now it is Batemon for Toure. The bad thing is that Heise’s shot has disappeared same as Toures. IMO if we can’t count on Toure, Heise or Lipsey to hit an open 3, we are not getting past the R32. Same thing with the game today. If none of those three can hit a shot, we’ll lose to asu. Don’t matter what anyone else does.
Offensively yes. Toure is a better defender than Tamin was. And Tamin wasn't bad.
I thought it was JR which is a bit of a problem.
I know everyone wants to compare Toure's 3pt shooting to Tamin's freshman year, but, it's hard to compare 5-25 (Tamin) to 20-71 (Toure). Attempting and missing keeps defenses more honest than not even looking to shoot. Heise is a 5th year guy that shot 40% on the season last year and 58% in the last half of Big 12 and has only attempted 74 3s. That should be getting more attention by TJ and staff. Toure will become more consistent, but, for this year, we need Heise taking at least 4 3s a game.
Toure isn't shooting well from 3, no doubt. He is so spooked about his shot lately that he is passing up wide open looks as they sag off of him.
But in this 5 game period when he has gone 0-fer, he hasn't been turning the ball over (6 TOs to 6 As). He hasn't been totally tearing it up with steals (3 Ss) but he has been asked to do a lot more ball denial than generating steals. He has been dreadful from 3 but has hit his shots from 2 (5 of 10), and from the line the few times he has gotten there (3 of 4). Also despite being assigned with crawling in the jock strap of the other team's best perimeter player every game he hasn't fouled more than 3 times in any of those games (2.4 per game) granted in reduced minutes (17.6 per game). I think there is value in setting the tone defensively with Toure to start to shake up their best back court player and then have Batemon come in for the change of pace defensively and to provide a spark offensively.
Yeah, I love Nate but it seems like the difference is Toure stops shooting when he has 2 airballs; Heise stops shooting when the first one bounces off the rim. Nate has only attempted 8 3s in those last 5 games and four of them were in the BYU game. He has attempted 4 threes in the last 4 games.
The other move if it’s clear those 3 don’t have it early in the game, is to just play Jefferson, Momcilovic, and Batemon in the floor together for extended minutes.
