Batemon & Toure

[SolterraCyclone]

Great win yesterday after a bit of a struggle out the gates. Now that we’re entering crunch time, I’d really like to see Batemon getting even more minutes or starting over Toure.

Toure has had more minutes than Batemon in every game this year, until the Utah game. Since then, Batemon has roughly 57% to 42% of the minutes between the two. That ratio needs to be more weighted to Batemon (maybe either Batemon starting).

The charts below show, since early Feb, Toure’s influence on the total score has been trending down and net negative since mid February (dotted line is running 5-game average) while Batemon’s has been trending up with more minutes.

I understand valuing Toure’s on-ball D. But that prioritization is not influencing an overall positive outcome right now. I believe O is more important come March and Batemon’s shooting provides spacing on the floor for more efficient half court offense, while still being able to force turnovers on the defensive end. I’m hesitant but willing to say it, I think I’d move Lipsey to the point and start Batemon over Toure.

 

[madguy30]

Batemon seems to be in the Cujo role that works well coming off the bench with a spark.

Sometimes that dynamic works best.

Looks like the staff has leaned into it as the season has moved along.

 

[SolterraCyclone]

Batemon seems to be in the Cujo role that works well coming off the bench with a spark.

Sometimes that dynamic works best.

Looks like the staff has leaned into it as the season has moved along.

That would be my one hesitation is it is helpful to have a scorer come off the bench. I’d still like Batemon to get 25-30 minutes per game versus 10-15 for Toure.

Batemon has only eclipsed over 25 minutes per game once since he’s been getting more minutes over Toure.

I still would try starting Batemon though because we have still struggled to start games.

 

[Clonedogg]

Well I hope they both stay at ISU, these are weird times, and we get to enjoy them both a few more years.

 

[madguy30]

That would be my one hesitation is it is helpful to have a scorer come off the bench. I’d still like Batemon to get 25-30 minutes per game versus 10-15 for Toure.

Batemon has only eclipsed over 25 minutes per game once since he’s been getting more minutes over Toure.

I still would try starting Batemon though because we have still struggled to start games.

I'm guessing the staff that's there every day and is constantly in practice and meetings with one another and players etc. are figuring out what works best.

 

[Goclones1727]

Not sure who decided to change Toure’s form on his jump shot but I’d argue he looked way cleaner and smoother in high school. Right now, he’s shooting straight set shots with no vertical lift. I think his form is correctable and as others have said, he clearly has the work ethic.

 

[SolterraCyclone]

I'm guessing the staff that's there every day and is constantly in practice and meetings with one another and players etc. are figuring out what works best.

Well of course. There’s obviously context they have that I don’t. But you don’t think they’ve considered starting Batemon?

From an analytical perspective I’d try starting Batemon.

 

[Thomasrickj]

The two airballs from Toure yesterday were the tipping point for me. He’s offensively a complete liability. Batemon, while he’s not Toure on defense, is still a good defender. The offensive spark that Batemon provides is incredible and I’d like to see the minutes be closer to 28/12 in favor of Batemon. Toure losing minutes may also inspire him to work on his offensive game in the offseason. I’m confident Toure can turn into a good offensive player, but he’s not there this season and needs time in the offseason to focus on that aspect.

 

[Lineup]

watch out for NIl they might get a big offer from some team

 

[madguy30]

Well of course. There’s obviously context they have that I don’t. But you don’t think they’ve considered starting Batemon?

From an analytical perspective I’d try starting Batemon.

Maybe, but they may have tried some things and found he's a better fit off the bench, just expanded as he got more comfortable and confident with different aspects.

 

[chuckd4735]

I don't get to worried about who starts. All about is plays more. Batemon is averaging 7.25 more minutes than Toure in the last 4 games

 

[HarryClone]

Batemon seems to be in the Cujo role that works well coming off the bench with a spark.

Sometimes that dynamic works best.

Looks like the staff has leaned into it as the season has moved along.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the MBB social media calls the starters “The First Five”

 

[cayin]

The two airballs from Toure yesterday were the tipping point for me. He’s offensively a complete liability. Batemon, while he’s not Toure on defense, is still a good defender. The offensive spark that Batemon provides is incredible and I’d like to see the minutes be closer to 28/12 in favor of Batemon. Toure losing minutes may also inspire him to work on his offensive game in the offseason. I’m confident Toure can turn into a good offensive player, but he’s not there this season and needs time in the offseason to focus on that aspect.

agree, we are going to run into competent coaches that have teams that really value the ball. In other words, out attacking, trapping defense won't work as well. In that case, we have to get better at half court basketball. Our defense won't carry the day in those type of games, we have to score. Toure on the floor hurts the offense, not just for what he can't do, but it also makes it harder for everyone else to score because they are sagging off. With Batemon, you can't sag off, no way. And of course that helps our spacing.

 

[coolerifyoudid]

Toure has started nearly all year. I don't see a reason to mess with things right now. I think TJ probably wanted him to work through the freshman wall. Batemon has proven he will be a contributor once he hits the court. Both of them are gonna be huge for us in the years to come. Having Lipsey as a role model is massive for both of them.

 

[Cyforce]

Toure only played 16 minutes yesterday. I think the transition is well on its way. Who starts is kinda irrelevant. They are different players game to game usage is going to vary. For example if we’re playing BYU I wanna see KTs D on the floor as much as possible.

 

[cycloneG]

Batemon was always better offensively but his defense has improved 10 fold since the beginning of the year. He isn't as good on the ball as Toure but he's much better off than ball than he was at the beginning of the year.

 

[NENick]

The two airballs from Toure yesterday were the tipping point for me. He’s offensively a complete liability. Batemon, while he’s not Toure on defense, is still a good defender. The offensive spark that Batemon provides is incredible and I’d like to see the minutes be closer to 28/12 in favor of Batemon. Toure losing minutes may also inspire him to work on his offensive game in the offseason. I’m confident Toure can turn into a good offensive player, but he’s not there this season and needs time in the offseason to focus on that aspect.

Toure will still get more than 12, because they are on the floor together for a few minutes, too.

I think it's helpful to have Batemon's offense coming off the bench. I also see the advantage of him and Milan in the game together as much as possible. IMO, starting or not isn't particularly important.

 

[hoosman]

I thought someone said Batemon graduated top of his HS class. Smart guy who is not done improving.

 

[SolterraCyclone]

Toure only played 16 minutes yesterday. I think the transition is well on its way. Who starts is kinda irrelevant. They are different players game to game usage is going to vary. For example if we’re playing BYU I wanna see KTs D on the floor as much as possible.

Normally I’d agree, except we’ve struggled in the first 4 minutes of games recently. I’d like to see us get off to a better start.

I also think 16 minutes is too much for Toure at this point

 

[Chitowncy]

That would be my one hesitation is it is helpful to have a scorer come off the bench. I’d still like Batemon to get 25-30 minutes per game versus 10-15 for Toure.

Batemon has only eclipsed over 25 minutes per game once since he’s been getting more minutes over Toure.

I still would try starting Batemon though because we have still struggled to start games.

Yes, the struggling to start games has been a big concern. Toure's lost his confidence a bit on the 3 ball and doesn't look to be a threat as much. An offense suffers when that happens. Suffice to say, I worry we'll get down in the NCAA Tourney 10 - 4 or something, like we did to Illinois in the tourney a few years ago, before Batemon even gets in the game and even if his plus minus is positive the rest of the game as it's been, it might not be enough to overcome the offensive hole. Batemon's better for our offense right now and has been about the past month.

Regardless, this staff has done an unbelievable job, and we are just nitpicking, but I think we all want this team to achieve what no ISU team has before and it might be 2 points that makes the difference in March to get to that Elite 8 or Final 4, and I think Batemon gives us a better chance at that in general.

That said, every game is different, every matchup is different and there will probably be some where Toure should get more minutes. Batemon and Toure are both great Cyclones and nice to have them both on the team !

I will say, Otzelberger doesn't seem to make these changes (just look at last year when he kept an NBA player on the bench all year), so don't hold your breath. We're nitpicking, as we are lucky to have this team and coaching staff!!