Are we being to harsh

[MJN]

Of course. Don't you want the best for your team? Don't you WANT them to make Elite 8s and Final Fours? I support and will continue to support ISU whether we make 0 Elite 8s in the next decade or 5. But why is it not okay to discuss all of the talent we've had and that I feel like we've underachieved with that talent? Take the NCAA tournament away and look at conference records - that's more telling than a crapshoot tournament.

And since you asked, I did the research - 34 different teams (including half of the Big 12) have made the Elite 8 in the last decade. 34. That includes teams like Butler, Kansas State, West Virginia, Baylor, VCU, Wichita State, Marquette, Dayton, South Carolina, Loyola, Florida State, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Auburn in addition to many of the traditional names. I'd argue Iowa State is at the same level as many of the schools I listed or above. So again, why is it taboo or bad to talk about the fact that we haven't made it past the Sweet 16 in 20 years?

I want ISU to win every game. I'm about as big of a fan there is. I get ticked off every time they lose, but people need some perspective. Never said it was bad to talk about how we haven't made it past the sweet 16. You said we haven't even been close. We have. We've also had some weird things happen. Babb turning ankle, Niang breaking foot, UAB debacle. Crap happens in a single elimination tournament. So then what our conference records haven't been good enough? I guess I don't follow...

I'm not happy the team stinks. If anything it makes me appreciate the success we've had over the past decade, but when we get to the point we talk about the good not being good enough then we've become the fan base most of us despise.

 

[cykee05]

Very different seasons and differing perspectives of disappointment.

The 14/15 team finished 2nd in the Big 12, one game behind Kansas. The 18/19 team lost 6 of their last 8 games of the regular season.

Both teams first round exit in the NCAA tournament is about the only similarity between the two seasons.

Both won the Big 12 Tournament and were primed to make a run in the NCAAs only to fall short in their first game

 

[Halincandenza]

Our guys had desire to be there, but they thought they could just waltz through that game, which cannot happen and is the reason why good teams lose to bad teams every single year in the tournament. They don't take their opponent seriously and they get beat and end up on One Shining Moment.

I actually think what happened to is in the first 5 or 6 minutes of that game they were taking it to UAB, it was something like 14-2, and then it seemed like they thought the game was won at that point and relaxed and once UAB got some confidence it seemed like ISU got tight and Niang might have had the worst game of his career.

 

[heitclone]

Yeah we're not bad this year because Prohm doesn't know how to handle this roster or doesn't know the right combinations. Prohm doesn't know how to handle this roster and doesn't know the right combinations BECAUSE we're a bad team. It's still on Prohm because this is his team at the end of the day and these are his players, but assuming this team SHOULD be better than they are is crazy.

This was never a tournament team but we should be better than we are, FAMU, TCU and Texas losses were inexcusable, getting blowout of bascially 8/10 league losses is inexcusable. So from a W/L standpoint, you're right, we shouldn't be much better but we should be more competitive. I get excuses about the roster but if this team is so awful/young/inexperienced etc...he should be taking more of a active role in whats going on during the game, he shouldn't be coaching this team like the veteran teams he had early on here, just letting them ride out tough stretches. He should be doing everything he can to set the players up for success, I don't get that feeling from his game day coaching.

I'm pretty sure the other night, we went nearly 12 (17+ mins to just under 5) minutes without calling a time out, while scoring like 12 points, blowing an 18 point lead and totally abandoning what built us that lead. Even with the media timeouts, he still couldn't stop the bleeding. That's poor coaching for any team, let alone a roster like this one. That the stuff that irks me.

 

[moores2]

I haven't taken the time to go through 11 pages here, but 2 cents after the TCU game.

I was cursing Prohm for taking a timeout with 1:30 left in first half after a made 3. Turns out it worked out well as we ended the half really well.

The trap of the high ball screen for Bane with 1 minute left to go was coaching genius. We don't do it all game until 1 minute left, and completely threw them out of their offense.

He has his flaws, but these 2 things really stood out.

 

[cykee05]

It's not what a lot of you want to hear but I don't think Prohm seat is even warm going into next year.

Agree...another clunker of a year next year and it will be lukewarm. I think it would take 3 consecutive at a minimum before JP even considers making any moves.

 

[Statefan10]

I actually think what happened to is in the first 5 or 6 minutes of that game they were taking it to UAB, it was something like 14-2, and then it seemed like they thought the game was won at that point and relaxed and once UAB got some confidence it seemed like ISU got tight and Niang might have had the worst game of his career.

Yes that was definitely the case. We thought UAB was going to fold. They didn't. We were not mentally ready for a competitive game and lost. Georges and Naz had some of their worst games. Dustin didn't score. BDJ didn't score. We shot 6-23 from the 3 pt line and only shot 7 total FT's. We were constantly settling for 3's instead of taking it at them and allowing the 3's to come on their own.

 

[moores2]

This was never a tournament team but we should be better than we are, FAMU, TCU and Texas losses were inexcusable, getting blowout of bascially 8/10 league losses is inexcusable. So from a W/L standpoint, you're right, we shouldn't be much better but we should be more competitive. I get excuses about the roster but if this team is so awful/young/inexperienced etc...he should be taking more of a active role in whats going on during the game, he shouldn't be coaching this team like the veteran teams he had early on here, just letting them ride out tough stretches. He should be doing everything he can to set the players up for success, I don't get that feeling from his game day coaching.

I'm pretty sure the other night, we went nearly 12 (17+ mins to just under 5) minutes without calling a time out, while scoring like 12 points, blowing an 18 point lead and totally abandoning what built us that lead. Even with the media timeouts, he still couldn't stop the bleeding. That's poor coaching for any team, let alone a roster like this one. That the stuff that irks me.

He called a timeout after they cut it to 10 or 9 out of the first half. After Bane got multiple rebounds on a single possession. Prohm called a timeout.

 

[Statefan10]

This was never a tournament team but we should be better than we are, FAMU, TCU and Texas losses were inexcusable, getting blowout of bascially 8/10 league losses is inexcusable. So from a W/L standpoint, you're right, we shouldn't be much better but we should be more competitive. I get excuses about the roster but if this team is so awful/young/inexperienced etc...he should be taking more of a active role in whats going on during the game, he shouldn't be coaching this team like the veteran teams he had early on here, just letting them ride out tough stretches. He should be doing everything he can to set the players up for success, I don't get that feeling from his game day coaching.

I'm pretty sure the other night, we went nearly 12 (17+ mins to just under 5) minutes without calling a time out, while scoring like 12 points, blowing an 18 point lead and totally abandoning what built us that lead. Even with the media timeouts, he still couldn't stop the bleeding. That's poor coaching for any team, let alone a roster like this one. That the stuff that irks me.

Go back and look at the possession by possession in how we blew that lead. Nixon and Bolton combined for 6 turnovers and I believe Nixon went 0-5 or 0-6 shooting during that stretch. There were a string of possessions where the only person who shot or touched the ball was Nixon. Prohm finally benched him and put in Grill who ended up being the person who won the game by playing some fantastic defense. Prohm had to make a decision who to put in for Nixon because he was literally blowing the game by himself, but who should he go to? Grill, Lewis, and Griffin were his options. 3 guys who you can't really rely upon at all to not screw up. He ended up going with the best defender out of the 3 and it worked out well in our favor.

And yes, we should not have lost those three games you mentioned. But you lose games all the time in basketball that you shouldn't. Kentucky lost to Evansville at home this year who is 0-17 in the MVC. Our loss feels tremendously worse because as a team we are tremendously worse. Duke has lost 2 of their last 3 including by 22 on the road against NC State and on the road against (12-15) Wake Forest. I'm not excusing the loss either, because we should not have lost to FAMU, but we are not the only team that has lost to a terrible team and we will not be the last.

 

[Halincandenza]

Go back and look at the possession by possession in how we blew that lead. Nixon and Bolton combined for 6 turnovers and I believe Nixon went 0-5 or 0-6 shooting during that stretch. There were a string of possessions where the only person who shot or touched the ball was Nixon. Prohm finally benched him and put in Grill who ended up being the person who won the game by playing some fantastic defense. Prohm had to make a decision who to put in for Nixon because he was literally blowing the game by himself, but who should he go to? Grill, Lewis, and Griffin were his options. 3 guys who you can't really rely upon at all to not screw up. He ended up going with the best defender out of the 3 and it worked out well in our favor.

And yes, we should not have lost those three games you mentioned. But you lose games all the time in basketball that you shouldn't. Kentucky lost to Evansville at home this year who is 0-17 in the MVC. Our loss feels tremendously worse because as a team we are tremendously worse. Duke has lost 2 of their last 3 including by 22 on the road against NC State and on the road against (12-15) Wake Forest. I'm not excusing the loss either, because we should not have lost to FAMU, but we are not the only team that has lost to a terrible team and we will not be the last.

Yeah, I would say the only game they should have won was FAU. The others are close road games in conference where weird things can happen in close games. 90% of the time ISU probably wins that TCU game, maybe even 99%.

 

[Statefan10]

Yeah, I would say the only game they should have won was FAU. The others are close road games in conference where weird things can happen in close games. 90% of the time ISU probably wins that TCU game, maybe even 99%.

The TCU game was SO unlucky. We probably should've beaten Texas but honestly when was the last time we came out of Austin with a win? We're not a mentally tough team, nor an overall talented team. That combination will not win you any games on the road, especially in conference play.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

Go back and look at the possession by possession in how we blew that lead. Nixon and Bolton combined for 6 turnovers and I believe Nixon went 0-5 or 0-6 shooting during that stretch. There were a string of possessions where the only person who shot or touched the ball was Nixon. Prohm finally benched him and put in Grill who ended up being the person who won the game by playing some fantastic defense. Prohm had to make a decision who to put in for Nixon because he was literally blowing the game by himself, but who should he go to? Grill, Lewis, and Griffin were his options. 3 guys who you can't really rely upon at all to not screw up. He ended up going with the best defender out of the 3 and it worked out well in our favor.

And yes, we should not have lost those three games you mentioned. But you lose games all the time in basketball that you shouldn't. Kentucky lost to Evansville at home this year who is 0-17 in the MVC. Our loss feels tremendously worse because as a team we are tremendously worse. Duke has lost 2 of their last 3 including by 22 on the road against NC State and on the road against (12-15) Wake Forest. I'm not excusing the loss either, because we should not have lost to FAMU, but we are not the only team that has lost to a terrible team and we will not be the last.

The obligatory "Prohm is not Calipari, or coach K so that argument is not valid" in 3.........................2............................1...........................

 

[heitclone]

Go back and look at the possession by possession in how we blew that lead. Nixon and Bolton combined for 6 turnovers and I believe Nixon went 0-5 or 0-6 shooting during that stretch. There were a string of possessions where the only person who shot or touched the ball was Nixon. Prohm finally benched him and put in Grill who ended up being the person who won the game by playing some fantastic defense. Prohm had to make a decision who to put in for Nixon because he was literally blowing the game by himself, but who should he go to? Grill, Lewis, and Griffin were his options. 3 guys who you can't really rely upon at all to not screw up. He ended up going with the best defender out of the 3 and it worked out well in our favor.

And yes, we should not have lost those three games you mentioned. But you lose games all the time in basketball that you shouldn't. Kentucky lost to Evansville at home this year who is 0-17 in the MVC. Our loss feels tremendously worse because as a team we are tremendously worse. Duke has lost 2 of their last 3 including by 22 on the road against NC State and on the road against (12-15) Wake Forest. I'm not excusing the loss either, because we should not have lost to FAMU, but we are not the only team that has lost to a terrible team and we will not be the last.

Grill came in at the 17 minute mark for Bolton, the backcourt was Nixon, TJ and Grill for a the beginning of their run. In that lineup, way too much of the pressure to score is on Nixon. TJ spots up and doesn't move, Grill is a non factor on offense. They both took really bad shots as well (TJs were more heat checks but bad timing). A couple of Nixons shots were forced but some were simply because no one else was moving, one was a wide open 18 footer off a high ball screen, taking that shot on that play is the right move. He didn't decide to run that play, he was responding to the play that was called. Having that lineup on the floor and just letting things unfold is exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[Halincandenza]

I think another thing people need to take into consideration, at least with the record for this year's team. Is that they played a very difficult non con schedule.
Seton Hall twice- #13
Auburn- #15
Iowa- #18
Michigan #19

And although they aren't great teams they had these two as well.
Alabama should finish .500 better in the SEC
Oregon State - true road game

 

[heitclone]

I think another thing people need to take into consideration, at least with the record for this year's team. Is that they played a very difficult non con schedule.
Seton Hall twice- #13
Auburn- #15
Iowa- #18
Michigan #19

And although they aren't great teams they had these two as well.
Alabama should finish .500 better in the SEC
Oregon State - true road game

Agree but you also have to point out that they are playing the easiest big 12 schedule in recent memory.

 

[Statefan10]

Grill came in at the 17 minute mark for Bolton, the backcourt was Nixon, TJ and Grill for a the beginning of their run. In that lineup, way too much of the pressure to score is on Nixon. TJ spots up and doesn't move, Grill is a non factor on offense. They both took really bad shots as well (TJs were more heat checks but bad timing). A couple of Nixons shots were forced but some were simply because no one else was moving, one was a wide open 18 footer off a high ball screen, taking that shot on that play is the right move. He didn't decide to run that play, he was responding to the play that was called. Having that lineup on the floor and just letting things unfold is exactly what I'm talking about.

Why in God's name would the pressure to score be on Nixon when he's the worst shooter on the team by volume? Also, we were dominating in the first half of the game by getting the ball down low to Solomon and letting him work, as well as moving the ball around the perimeter for open shots. During that time you're discussing, Nixon pulled up from 15+ feet (the worst shot in basketball) probably 3 times off of a ball screen instead of swinging it and never once waited to see if his big men were going to pop or roll. It also wasn't that Nixon was missing, it was how badly he was missing. He air banked 3 shots and the rest came off so hard off the rim, they were basically outlet passes to TCU for 2-1 fast breaks the other way.

I go back to though.. He was going to take out Bolton because Bolton was struggling a bit. His options are a freshman who has struggled offensively but has been okay at defense (Grill), and two guys who shoot it almost every time they touch the ball and play literally 0 defense (Griffin and Lewis).

 

[WhoISthis]

We’re going to surprise next year.

We’ve had some bad play this season, and lose Haliburton plus two other starters. Preseason expectations will be low.

But if the staff can get these guys to improve on defense, we will be better. Bolton, Grill, Jackson,Young, and Conditt will be hungry and I believe will be better next year. Johnson will instantly fill a void. The freshmen give us much needed length and athleticism. If we add a transfer guard that can play, we’ll have a sneaky good roster that is balanced.

Questions about whether this staff can teach defense are valid. So are the several instances of Prohm losing the pulse of the team and role identification. But even without improvements in fundamentals, having more versatility will help.

Remember when we lost Wigginton to injury after the opening game in 2018-19 and Lard and Talley were suspended? We ended up playing great team ball, with some solid defense! Roles were clear, and we could switch 1-4 on defense. We don’t have a Shayok, but next year’s group can play that way.

I believe we’ll see the unselfish play, and a return to small ball. We’ll get more stops and thus more in transition.

 

[heitclone]

Why in God's name would the pressure to score be on Nixon when he's the worst shooter on the team by volume? Also, we were dominating in the first half of the game by getting the ball down low to Solomon and letting him work, as well as moving the ball around the perimeter for open shots. During that time you're discussing, Nixon pulled up from 15+ feet (the worst shot in basketball) probably 3 times off of a ball screen instead of swinging it and never once waited to see if his big men were going to pop or roll. It also wasn't that Nixon was missing, it was how badly he was missing. He air banked 3 shots and the rest came off so hard off the rim, they were basically outlet passes to TCU for 2-1 fast breaks the other way.

I go back to though.. He was going to take out Bolton because Bolton was struggling a bit. His options are a freshman who has struggled offensively but has been okay at defense (Grill), and two guys who shoot it almost every time they touch the ball and play literally 0 defense (Griffin and Lewis).

The pressure is on him bc everyone else was standing around, Solo got pulled not long after as well. Letting Nixon do what he did is exactly what I mean. He waited it out until the next TV timeout. Do you think Nixon wasn't instructed to run the ball screen? Do you think he's not coached to take the open jumper off of it? Why did Steve just wait it out? More examples of a coach that isn't coaching to his teams strengths.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

The trap of the high ball screen for Bane with 1 minute left to go was coaching genius. We don't do it all game until 1 minute left, and completely threw them out of their offense.

This fan agrees...................

One coach had a plan, the other coach had a plan to set the trap right at the point where the first coach had instructed his team to screen. Seems like a coaching decision...not execution. Prohm was one step ahead of Dixon, Dixon never expected a trap there, he ignorantly thought they'd just let them screen us.

 

[ISUChippewa]

Of course. Don't you want the best for your team? Don't you WANT them to make Elite 8s and Final Fours? I support and will continue to support ISU whether we make 0 Elite 8s in the next decade or 5. But why is it not okay to discuss all of the talent we've had and that I feel like we've underachieved with that talent? Take the NCAA tournament away and look at conference records - that's more telling than a crapshoot tournament.

And since you asked, I did the research - 34 different teams (including half of the Big 12) have made the Elite 8 in the last decade. 34. That includes teams like Butler, Kansas State, West Virginia, Baylor, VCU, Wichita State, Marquette, Dayton, South Carolina, Loyola, Florida State, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Auburn in addition to many of the traditional names. I'd argue Iowa State is at the same level as many of the schools I listed or above. So again, why is it taboo or bad to talk about the fact that we haven't made it past the Sweet 16 in 20 years?

Well, if you want to down that route, then every single coach in that time period needs to be held accountable for that "failure", not just Prohm.

And it's going farther off-topic than it already is, but to be honest I was very disappointed that we didn't beat UCONN in the Sweet 16 during the '14 tournament run. Yes, they went on to win the whole damn thing, so in retrospect it's not a bad loss, but we were the higher seed and had already won a game without Georges. And honestly, we really weren't even all that competitive in that game; IIRC, UCONN really pretty much controlled it from start to finish. I was more disappointed in that result than I was in losing to Ohio State last season.