Are we being to harsh

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Shayok yes. THT and Wiggy were def not sure things leaving though. Last year at this time most didnt think either would get drafted, especially Wiggy
Everyone knew Wigginton was leaving. The only reason he came back was to improve his stock. As for Talen, the staff should have known when he started appearing in mock drafts as a top 20 prospect that he was likely not returning.
 

CloneIce

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I’d have a lot more faith in Prohm if he didn’t consistently struggle to figure out the best lineup combinations to put on the court. He struggles more than any ISU coach I can remember. It’s been an issue even in our good years.
 

MJN

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Of course its hard. And no one is saying we should have won it all. But go back and look at the number of programs that have made it to an Elite 8. And we haven't really been close, even with a lot of talent.
Ok so tell me how many have made the elite 8? How many are repeat blue blood programs? There are a few Cinderellas sprinkled in. Have we had talent, absolutely. But lets not pretend like we weren't close. People will find anything to ***** about. If we had made a few elite 8's people would ***** about not making a final four. Had we not made a final 4 people would ***** about not winning it all.
 
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cyclones12321

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Thinking about what we lost after last year? I think I might have just expected to much this season. We lost THT, Wigginton, Shayok. That’s is a ton of scoring and talent.

I think I am changing my thought process and want to see what we are
Like next season and the season after. Changing the coach does not always make things better. Prohm has had some good teams and we have won a lot of games with him.
I think next season will be more telling. Lost almost our whole lineup last year. Not sure how we could expect anything too crazy. I will say, when you’re getting the good recruits we continue to get, needs to be a little better at filling in the classes. We obviously aren’t a blue blood but need to have guys waiting and ready to go when you have guys going to the nba. Over the last ten years we’ve made such a huge jump being a pretty consistent tournament team and now feels like we are back at the bottom. If the downhill trend continues next year and players are talking about how guys aren’t trying like this year then I think a change needs to be made
 

mdk2isu

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I think he has probably earned his chance to redeem himself next year, but I don't think it will get turned around in 1 year. Next year we look to have 1 contributing senior in Young. A decent junior in Bolton, a question mark transfer, and some sophomores who need to improve a bunch, but who have been making strides. Freshman are all wildcards.

I don't see it as likely for us to make the NCAA tourney, which means prohm will have taken us from going what, 7 years in a row, to missing 3 of 4 with 1 first round loss in the year we did make it, and that shouldn't be acceptable. So might as well cut our losses ahead of time.
Let me ask you a question: If we had a coach that went 17-13 (6-8) making the NIT, then 10-17 (4-10), followed by 11-17 (3-11) in 3 straight seasons, missing the tournaments the last 2 how would you react?

You would fire him bcause we 'might as well cut our losses'. Guess what, you just fired arguably the greatest MBB coach of all time after his first 3 seasons at Duke. A program he took over than in the 3 seasons prior had gone: NCAA runner up, 2nd round loss, Elite 8.

Sometimes a little patience is required.

I'm not saying Prohm is the next Coach K, but the point needed to be made.
 
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Cycl1

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Let me ask you a question: If we had a coach that went 17-13 (6-8) making the NIT, then 10-17 (4-10), followed by 11-17 (3-11) in 3 straight seasons, missing the tournaments the last 2 how would you react?

You would fire him bcause we 'might as well cut our losses'. Guess what, you just fired arguably the greatest MBB coach of all time after his first 3 seasons at Duke. A program he took over than in the 3 seasons prior had gone: NCAA runner up, 2nd round loss, Elite 8.

Sometimes a little patience is required.

I'm not saying Prohm is the next Coach K, but the point needed to be made.
Was coach k setting records for margins of defeat, and biggest upsets in the history of BPI in all of college basketball? Prohm is also 5 years in. He failed to build off of hoibergs success. He maintained it for 2 you ayears with hoibergs players. If you are cool with one NCAA tournament every 4 years and not making it out of the first weekend, then by all means stay on the prohm train. I would love to be wrong about this. I know he will get next year to turn it around and I hope he gets a stud transfer and puts together a nasty ass kicking team. He seems like a really great guy, but I don't think that will happen, and I think accepting the ass beatings we have gotten this year as being okay because he won the big 12 tournament the year before and then lost the first game of the NCAA as being a great season in the historical context of ISU is a loser mentality.
 
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mdk2isu

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Was coach k setting records for margins of defeat, and biggest upsets in the history of BPI in all of college basketball? Prohm is also 5 years in. He failed to build off of hoibergs success. He maintained it for 2 you ayears with hoibergs players. If you are cool with one NCAA tournament every 4 years and not making it out of the first weekend, then by all means stay on the prohm train. I would love to be wrong about this. I know he will get next year to turn it around and I hope he gets a stud transfer and puts together a nasty ass kicking team. He seems like a really great guy, but I don't think that will happen, and I think accepting the ass beatings we have gotten this year as being okay because he won the big 12 tournament the year before and then lost the first game of the NCAA as being a great season in the historical context of ISU is a loser mentality.
Coach K failed to build off Bill Fosters success in his first 3 seasons. A coach that the 3 previous season had taken Duke farther in 2 of them than Hoiburg ever took ISU.

This would be season 3 for Prohm after Hoiburg's guys are gone that none of you Prohm haters want to give Prohm any credit for, so the timeframe is similar.

We have missed in 2 out of 4 years now, next season is obviously unknown. If we miss again next year, yeah, a change is probably in order. You are acting like it's a foregone conclusion that we will completely suck next year. At least have a little faith in the players to want to correct things, even if you dont like or believe in the coach.

Loyal Sons, Forever True right?
 

cykee05

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Was coach k setting records for margins of defeat, and biggest upsets in the history of BPI in all of college basketball? Prohm is also 5 years in. He failed to build off of hoibergs success. He maintained it for 2 you ayears with hoibergs players. If you are cool with one NCAA tournament every 4 years and not making it out of the first weekend, then by all means stay on the prohm train. I would love to be wrong about this. I know he will get next year to turn it around and I hope he gets a stud transfer and puts together a nasty ass kicking team. He seems like a really great guy, but I don't think that will happen, and I think accepting the ass beatings we have gotten this year as being okay because he won the big 12 tournament the year before and then lost the first game of the NCAA as being a great season in the historical context of ISU is a loser mentality.
"On March 11th, 1983, a Ralph Sampson-led Virginia team destroyed Duke 109-66 for the most lop-sided loss in school history (in the modern era). This loss put the final punctuation on a dismal third season for head coach Mike Krzyzewski, who's Blue Devils finished seventh in the ACC with a dreary 11-17 record."
 

Kurttr

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I think almost all of us agree that Prohm is on the hot seat for next year - some of us, including me, took longer than others to get to that point, but he's clearly there. But, please, please, please, please... set aside the utopia that some have created that Fred's teams were flawless and the program was headed to "Duke" status if he'd only stayed. Fred did great things here. He may have done even greater things; things may have tailed off a bit (surely not a lot, but you never know, e.g,. LE's teams sure tailed off after the Elite 8); we'll never know... we'll never know. His last game was the UAB game - that alone refutes much of the insanity some of you continually raise about Prohm.

Things can turn around quickly. Maybe they will next year; maybe they won't. It will work itself out. Go Cyclones.
 

cycloneworld

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Ok so tell me how many have made the elite 8? How many are repeat blue blood programs? There are a few Cinderellas sprinkled in. Have we had talent, absolutely. But lets not pretend like we weren't close. People will find anything to ***** about. If we had made a few elite 8's people would ***** about not making a final four. Had we not made a final 4 people would ***** about not winning it all.
Of course. Don't you want the best for your team? Don't you WANT them to make Elite 8s and Final Fours? I support and will continue to support ISU whether we make 0 Elite 8s in the next decade or 5. But why is it not okay to discuss all of the talent we've had and that I feel like we've underachieved with that talent? Take the NCAA tournament away and look at conference records - that's more telling than a crapshoot tournament.

And since you asked, I did the research - 34 different teams (including half of the Big 12) have made the Elite 8 in the last decade. 34. That includes teams like Butler, Kansas State, West Virginia, Baylor, VCU, Wichita State, Marquette, Dayton, South Carolina, Loyola, Florida State, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Auburn in addition to many of the traditional names. I'd argue Iowa State is at the same level as many of the schools I listed or above. So again, why is it taboo or bad to talk about the fact that we haven't made it past the Sweet 16 in 20 years?
 
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BWRhasnoAC

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Of course its hard. And no one is saying we should have won it all. But go back and look at the number of programs that have made it to an Elite 8. And we haven't really been close, even with a lot of talent.
We also never played ourselves into a higher seed. Just because you have talent doesn't make you a better team.
 
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Statefan10

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Was coach k setting records for margins of defeat, and biggest upsets in the history of BPI in all of college basketball? Prohm is also 5 years in. He failed to build off of hoibergs success. He maintained it for 2 you ayears with hoibergs players. If you are cool with one NCAA tournament every 4 years and not making it out of the first weekend, then by all means stay on the prohm train. I would love to be wrong about this. I know he will get next year to turn it around and I hope he gets a stud transfer and puts together a nasty ass kicking team. He seems like a really great guy, but I don't think that will happen, and I think accepting the ass beatings we have gotten this year as being okay because he won the big 12 tournament the year before and then lost the first game of the NCAA as being a great season in the historical context of ISU is a loser mentality.
I think you're missing @mdk2isu 's point.. He's saying you don't want to fire a coach too early. You also don't want to fire a coach too late either. You don't fire a coach for making the NCAA tournament 3/5 years.. You just don't. Now, next season is an entirely different story. If we're not a tournament team next year, I think Prohm could be gone.

To your final point.. I don't think anyone is "accepting" these beatings.. They are definitely not "okay". But being realistic is different than simply accepting reality. The reality is we're not a good basketball team this year. We have some nice players, but also some that are either overall not good or don't fit well in what Prohm likes to run. There are not many coaches in the country this year that would be able to coach this team to success. It's on Prohm for having this roster, but he's bringing in a good recruiting class, has a good transfer sitting on the sidelines right now, and will have a good chance to bring another piece in to round out the team.
 

SCyclone

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The issue is 6 of the 7 of those weren't his players. Of the players he recruited, who has he made significantly better? Haliburton, yes. Wiggington (no), THT (no), Conditt (maybe?), Griffin (no), Nixon (hell no), Lard (maybe?), Lewis (no), Jackson (not yet), Grill (not yet).

So where is all of this player development coming from?
Well, at one point or another Prohm did coach all of them, and so by definition they were "his" players, whether he recruited them or not.

And I would further argue that he did in fact develop those players to certain degrees (some more than others).

Prohm's in-game coaching needs a lot of work. But I don't think you can argue that he is a fine recruiter and a decent developer of talent.
 
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Statefan10

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Of course. Don't you want the best for your team? Don't you WANT them to make Elite 8s and Final Fours? I support and will continue to support ISU whether we make 0 Elite 8s in the next decade or 5. But why is it not okay to discuss all of the talent we've had and that I feel like we've underachieved with that talent? Take the NCAA tournament away and look at conference records - that's more telling than a crapshoot tournament.
We would've had a tremendous opportunity to make an Elite 8 George's senior year as well as Monte's senior year if Fred would've stayed as the head coach. Recruiting classes / transfers would've been steady, the play style, scheme, and terminology would've stayed the same, etc. Fred leaving hurt that tremendously and anyone blaming Prohm for not being able to go farther with those two teams is ridiculous.

You look at the teams that usually make the Elite 8, and you're looking at teams with a solid nucleus of juniors and seniors, and usually those guys have been with the team / program for a number of years. Blue bloods like Duke, UNC, and Kentucky are different. They are able to reload year after year and their young talent carries them far in the tournament.
 

Statefan10

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Well, at one point or another Prohm did coach all of them, and so by definition they were "his" players, whether he recruited them or not.

And I would further argue that he did in fact develop those players to certain degrees (some more than others).

Prohm's in-game coaching needs a lot of work. But I don't think you can argue that he is a fine recruiter and a decent developer of talent.
Yeah and it's a little hard for players to develop a lot in a two year span of time.. Wiggington, THT, and Lard left after two years or less. Halliburton is going to leave after two years. Conditt and Griffin have only been here two years. Lewis has probably capped imo, but who knows. It's not even fair to bring Jackson and Grill into this conversation because they haven't even been with the program for a year yet. Also, if you're going to say he hasn't developed Nixon, but then completely leave out Shayok, you shouldn't bring up Nixon at all. Solomon Young has also developed nicely here and I think he'll make an even bigger stride next year.
 
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CYEATHAWK

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He seems like a really great guy, but I don't think that will happen, and I think accepting the ass beatings we have gotten this year as being okay because he won the big 12 tournament the year before and then lost the first game of the NCAA as being a great season in the historical context of ISU is a loser mentality.
Well, looks like you hit all the talking points. Do you know the difference between a successful season and an underachieving season here at ISU....................2 wins. That's it. The 14/15 team went 25-9. The 18/19 squad went 23-12. They both had a loaded rosters. They both won the big 12 tourney and both were ousted in the first game of the NCAA. Yet those who want Prohms head think that overall the 14/15 season was a success while 18/19 was underwhelming. Hmmm...........
 

Statefan10

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Well, looks like you hit all the talking points. Do you know the difference between a successful season and an underachieving season here at ISU....................2 wins. That's it. The 14/15 team went 25-9. The 18/19 squad went 23-12. They both had a loaded rosters. They both won the big 12 tourney and both were ousted in the first game of the NCAA. Yet those who want Prohms head think that overall the 14/15 season was a success while 18/19 was underwhelming. Hmmm...........
The 14/15 team underachieved far more than the 18/19 team did. The 14/15 team was a top 10 team, got a 3 seed, and lost to a FAR worse team in UAB. Even though that's a fact, Prohm received far more criticism.