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235 speed cameras Back On Monday

dmclone said:
If they think an 11mph cushion is safe, why not increase the speed limit by 10 mph?

The speed limit is 60mph in this section, would it be ok if they gave tickets at 69mph? How about 65mph? Why not 61mph? All examples are breaking the law.

If they raised the speed limit to 70mph would you be ok giving tickets at 71mph? 75mph? 81mph?

If you're comfortable with them giving tickets at 11mph over, than you should be fine with 1mph over as well. Maybe we could put devices on cars that won't allow you to exceed the speed limit?

Also, if it's all about safety how about they donate the proceeds to charity. I assume this also reduces the amount of work for police, so would the police department be ok with a reduction in staff since this is doing their work?
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No offense, but you may want to look at Pride's objections to speed cameras on this thread...and maybe run with those as your reasoning in the future.

What you've listed here is a hot mess that just comes off as someone who like to speed and doesn't want it to be any easier to get caught.
 
besserheimerphat said:
This already exists. I drive through variable speed limit zones all the time in Seattle on I-5 and I-405. Dont they do this in Chicago too?
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thanks....now that you mention it, I do believe I've maybe seen this is a few places.

It is kind of like you're starting to see in some cities with parking meter rates. They adjust the per hour cost depending on normal supply & demand during the day. Different variables, of course, but with technology we don't need to limit ourselves to what we've done in the past.
 
capitalcityguy said:
No offense, but you may want to look at Pride's objections to speed cameras on this thread...and maybe run with those as your reasoning in the future.

What you've listed here is a hot mess that just comes off as someone who like to speed and doesn't want it to be any easier to get caught.
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So you don't have an answer....
 
BurgundyClone said:
The person going 75 mph isn't causing near as many accidents as the person going 55 mph. The person going 55 mph is causing everyone behind him/her to make decisions to pass him/her. The 75 mph person is the only one making a decision. The more people on the road making decisions = more accidents.
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So the person who puts themselves in a position that makes it harder to slow or stop the car and make directional changes and is responsible for the front and sides of their car isn't a problem?

I suppose the person who 'has to make the decision' to text and drive isn't responsible for the child that walks in front of their car in a crosswalk either.
 
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capitalcityguy said:
I believe the answers are pretty obvious...again...I think you are being almost 100% emotional with your last comment.
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How easy do I have to make this?

69mph? Yes or No
65mph? Yes or No
61mph? Yes or No

As far as the last comment, I'm 100% serious. If McD's automates their work don't you think staff is reduced?
 
dmclone said:
How easy do I have to make this?

69mph? Yes or No
65mph? Yes or No
61mph? Yes or No

As far as the last comment, I'm 100% serious. If McD's automates their work don't you think staff is reduced?
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If an officer's entire job was writing speeding tickets at the one location, maybe.
 
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dmclone said:
How easy do I have to make this?

69mph? Yes or No
65mph? Yes or No
61mph? Yes or No

As far as the last comment, I'm 100% serious. If McD's automates their work don't you think staff is reduced?
Click to expand...

10 miles an hour seems like a very reasonable cushion. Provides for realization of human's not being robots driving their vehicles and also circumstances that can arrise requiring acceleration.

McD's is for profit business...so completely different entity, funding, budgeting.
I think police officers do a lot more for the public than man the FF machine and take orders.
 
capitalcityguy said:
10 miles an hour seems like a very reasonable cushion. Provides for realization of human's not being robots driving their vehicles and also circumstances that can arrise requiring acceleration.

McD's is for profit business...so completely different entity, funding, budgeting.
I think police officers do a lot more for the public than man the FF machine and take orders.
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So you wouldn't be fine if they lowered it to 9mph over?

As far as the cops go, it's pretty simple math. The DSM police officers work 60,000+ hours a month. These cameras are doing the job that a police officer would have to do since this area has so many crashes. I know that these officers will just be doing other jobs but the truth is that if they were spending 180 hours a month patrolling this area, they could get rid of one FTE and still provide the same level of service.

The reality is that they were never patrolling this area because there was never a problem that justified the cameras. The worst year had 10 accidents with and without the cameras. This is a money grab and the DOT knew it but couldn't do anything about it. I'm just talking about the i235 cameras.
 
dmclone said:
So you wouldn't be fine if they lowered it to 9mph over?

As far as the cops go, it's pretty simple math. The DSM police officers work 60,000+ hours a month. These cameras are doing the job that a police officer would have to do since this area has so many crashes. I know that these officers will just be doing other jobs but the truth is that if they were spending 180 hours a month patrolling this area, they could get rid of one FTE and still provide the same level of service.

The reality is that they were never patrolling this area because there was never a problem that justified the cameras. The worst year had 10 accidents with and without the cameras. This is a money grab and the DOT knew it but couldn't do anything about it. I'm just talking about the i235 cameras.
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You've convinced me - it is a money grab. If you are so incensed by it why don't you refrain from speeding or refrain from going more than 10 over so they don't get any of your money.
 
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My worst fear is that other cities see this lost revenue and jump on board. Imagine how much money a small town could make by installing these and what's stopping them from handing out tickets for lower speeds?
 
Part of the reason there isn't as much rush hour enforcement in a lot of areas is because they know that having a patrol pulling over a car during rush hour puts the cop at risk during a high traffic time and puts other drivers at risk as many times people brake unexpectedly and sometimes more quickly than necessary when they see flashing lights by the side of the road. These enforcement tools help to reign in the rush hour out of control race without having to create these hazards.

I'm not a fan of them, but I can see where they can have a value beyond just "a money grab."
 
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Cyclonepride said:
The big picture part of the problem is that eventually we may have the technological ability to penalize any trespass against the code of laws, and tens of thousands of laws on the books. Since the whole system is basically a construct of what we as a people want society to be, I think it's a necessary conversation for us to have and a question that we as a people should ask ourselves: do we want to live in a society where every violation of law is penalized automatically?
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Yes, in limited instances that we can fairly easily defined, controlled, and can be assured that modern technology can be successfully used. .

e.g..
If I have a security cam on my premise and I record people trespassing and/or vandalizing my property, it is reasonable and desired (IMO) that the recording of the offense is all that is needed to convict those caught on film breaking the law.

That is essentially what a speed camera is doing. Correct? This also swats back the "I have a right to face my accuser" argument.

I don't think the slipper sloop argument work here.

Again...argue for raising speed limits or maybe to do away with them. But we have the law now and it just seems silly that in this day and age we have to pay a person police officer's salary to sit in a car and point a radar at people when this can be handle by technology.
 
VeloClone said:
Part of the reason there isn't as much rush hour enforcement in a lot of areas is because they know that having a patrol pulling over a car during rush hour puts the cop at risk during a high traffic time and puts other drivers at risk as many times people brake unexpectedly and sometimes more quickly than necessary when they see flashing lights by the side of the road. These enforcement tools help to reign in the rush hour out of control race without having to create these hazards.

I'm not a fan of them, but I can see where they can have a value beyond just "a money grab."
Click to expand...

I can agree with this piece. Improve safety for the officers.
 
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dmclone said:
So you wouldn't be fine if they lowered it to 9mph over?

As far as the cops go, it's pretty simple math. The DSM police officers work 60,000+ hours a month. These cameras are doing the job that a police officer would have to do since this area has so many crashes. I know that these officers will just be doing other jobs but the truth is that if they were spending 180 hours a month patrolling this area, they could get rid of one FTE and still provide the same level of service.

The reality is that they were never patrolling this area because there was never a problem that justified the cameras. The worst year had 10 accidents with and without the cameras. This is a money grab and the DOT knew it but couldn't do anything about it. I'm just talking about the i235 cameras.
Click to expand...

You don't think most cities have a neighborhood or two or three or...that an increased police presence wouldn't be beneficial?

To your last point, I don't care if it is a money grab or not. Change the law!!! Either we are a county of laws, or we are not.

Municipalities in general do not have healthy budgets when you look at debt levels, public pensions, etc. If I was running a city and didn't want to piss off everyone and raise taxes, it seems to me a great revenue source would be ticketing people that can't keep their speed under 10 over the limit.
 
capitalcityguy said:
Yes, in limited instances that we can fairly easily defined, controlled, and can be assured that modern technology can be successfully used. .

e.g..
If I have a security cam on my premise and I record people trespassing and/or vandalizing my property, it is reasonable and desired (IMO) that the recording of the offense is all that is needed to convict those caught on film breaking the law.

That is essentially what a speed camera is doing. Correct? This also swats back the "I have a right to face my accuser" argument.

I don't think the slipper sloop argument work here.

Again...argue for raising speed limits or maybe to do away with them. But we have the law now and it just seems silly that in this day and age we have to pay a person police officer's salary to sit in a car and point a radar at people when this can be handle by technology.
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If it did not violate the 6th Amendment's right to face your accuser, why is the penalty for the same transgression civil rather than criminal?
 
Cyclonepride said:
If it did not violate the 6th Amendment's right to face your accuser, why is the penalty for the same transgression civil rather than criminal?
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I probably shouldn't have brought this up since admittedly, I don't completely understand the argument to make a good case one way or another.

I do believe however, which might be news to some, that in these instances, your accuser is the officer of the court who signs the ticket, not the camera.
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-supreme-court/1669146.html
 
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