Monday Night with a Teacher

[Gonzo]

Many kids love out of school suspension. And their parents usually don't stay home with them.

And their parents probably aren't pounding it into their heads how important this tiny little window of life is in determining their quality of life for the next 50+ years. I know my daughters have hated me on a fairly regular basis because I've always pushed them. I'll hear stories about how some of their friends slack off and are happy and their parents call them out of school every week and it's no big deal, even once heard one of my daughters talk about being jealous of a HS junior at their school who just had a baby and now gets to be a mom and the baby is sooo cute. And my response is the same... how happy are they going to be in 10 years working at a low-paying job they hate and living in a shoe box?

 

[VeloClone]

And their parents probably aren't pounding it into their heads how important this tiny little window of life is in determining their quality of life for the next 50+ years. I know my daughters have hated me on a fairly regular basis because I've always pushed them. I'll hear stories about how some of their friends slack off and are happy and their parents call them out of school every week and it's no big deal, even once heard one of my daughters talk about being jealous of a HS junior at their school who just had a baby and now gets to be a mom and the baby is sooo cute. And my response is the same... how happy are they going to be in 10 years working at a low-paying job they hate and living in a shoe box?

Yes, daughter was really upset with us pushing her in elementary school and ragging at her that C+s and Bs were not acceptable because she was smarter than that. After a couple of years we no longer had to push her because she was pushing herself and nothing but an A was acceptable to her.

She then open enrolled (her decision, I was pretty much against it) into a different school district for high school because it was the more challenging curriculum opportunities and more challenging sports environment.

 

[Jer]

So on the topic of bullying, does anybody else feel like maybe it's less harsh than when we were kids?

I'm 39 and I remember middle school and high school being absolutely brutal. This was with a class size of 40 in a town of under 2,000 in central Iowa. The small **** like what shoes you worse, if you wore Nike vs Wranglers, if you wore a shirt from the mall vs Walmart, etc was huge back then. When I talk to my 5th grader and try to get him to wear something different out of fear of bullying, he's like "why, kids don't care these days what you wear?".

Man, if a kid had a lisp, people thought they could be gay, they were from another country, or had a slight odor, they'd be nearly stoned every day. I was fortunate to not be in the super popular cliche or the unpopular group; I was largely invisible but it was hard to see the crap go on.

Since our kids are only in K and 5th, we might just be too early on the train, but it feels like even at those ages the pressures are just so much different nowadays. And it's possible it goes on but we just don't see/hear about it given the ages and our kids probably being in a similar "invisible" group. It seems less of a peer bullying and more of a societal pressure, at least at this age.

 

[VeloClone]

So on the topic of bullying, does anybody else feel like maybe it's less harsh than when we were kids?

I'm 39 and I remember middle school and high school being absolutely brutal. This was with a class size of 40 in a town of under 2,000 in central Iowa. The small **** like what shoes you worse, if you wore Nike vs Wranglers, if you wore a shirt from the mall vs Walmart, etc was huge back then. When I talk to my 5th grader and try to get him to wear something different out of fear of bullying, he's like "why, kids don't care these days what you wear?".

Man, if a kid had a lisp, people thought they could be gay, they were from another country, or had a slight odor, they'd be nearly stoned every day. I was fortunate to not be in the super popular cliche or the unpopular group; I was largely invisible but it was hard to see the crap go on.

Since our kids are only in K and 5th, we might just be too early on the train, but it feels like even at those ages the pressures are just so much different nowadays. And it's possible it goes on but we just don't see/hear about it given the ages and our kids probably being in a similar "invisible" group. It seems less of a peer bullying and more of a societal pressure, at least at this age.

I think it might have been worse when you were physically at or around school back then but what is worse today is social media where a bullied kid can't get away from his/her tormentors because they are on them day and night virtually.

 

[Jer]

I think it might have been worse when you were physically at or around school back then but what is worse today is social media where a bullied kid can't get away from his/her tormentors because they are on them day and night virtually.

Very valid point. School ended at 3:30 and now there is no escape. Failed to think about that, especially since I'm not on Facebook, Tik Tok, etc. I hope to be able to keep our boys away from that crap too.

 

[BigTurk]

I'm pretty lucky in that as my youngest is in 8th so I'm winding down something like 10 years of volunteer coaching, and I haven't experienced too many bad cases like that. There are a couple here and there, but most of those are kids you can work with.

I always sound like an old man ranting here, but I think a lot of the weekend problems with kids come with lack of time with parents. When both parents are working full-time and buy into this stupid "I have to take care of myself to be the best parent" ********, they have very little time actually interacting with their kids. Either through guilt or lack of energy to actually deal with their kids they don't to spend their limited time with their kids over a weekend disciplining them or taking away a planned fun activity.

People don't want to hear it, but you can't have two parents that are really into their careers working long hours and be highly effective parents. You can be almost superhuman with the time you have, but it simply takes a lot more time than you have available. It doesn't mean your kids won't turn out great, but that's taking a big chance. Actual parental bonding can't be a weekend job.

I can also assure people from experience, delaying or hindering careers to raise kids and actually spend lots of time with them is a decision parents will not regret. It's amazing how "poor" you can be and live a very happy life.

Spot on. I was working with a therapist once who said all the literature points to this. The "Quality not Quantity" is total crap. Quantity of time spent with your kids is super important, and not the parent staring into the phone while the kid is running around. Took a family trip this summer and the waterfront had a place to rent paddle boats. I watched a mom and her young son on a boat or a good 30 mins she just paddled and had her face in her phone. Completely ignoring her son. he was looking around pointing things out and she never lifted her gaze. Just terrible.

 

[Saul_T]

I mean,

Very valid point. School ended at 3:30 and now there is no escape. Failed to think about that, especially since I'm not on Facebook, Tik Tok, etc. I hope to be able to keep our boys away from that crap too.

It's not necessarily keeping them away as much as it is teaching them how to use it. There's no manual for social media. A lot of parents are just handing their kids phones and letting them figure it out along the way.

EDIT: In my opinion.

 

[Sousaclone]

I think it might have been worse when you were physically at or around school back then but what is worse today is social media where a bullied kid can't get away from his/her tormentors because they are on them day and night virtually.

I think it's probably a bit of both. I do think kids today are probably more accepting of stuff that 15-20 years ago would have gotten you bullied (video game and nerd culture is a good example from my youth). On the flip side, you are 100% correct that kids can't escape nearly as well as they could before. Before, when you went home you were essentially cut off and in a safe haven. Nowadays, that bully can follow you digitally anywhere you go, even if you do try and block them or ignore them. That's hard on a kid, especially if the parents don't know how to help prevent it (not that they aren't willing, they just aren't technically savvy (the technology difference between my oldest sister and me is huge and she's only 6 yrs older than I am).

 

[Gonzo]

I think it might have been worse when you were physically at or around school back then but what is worse today is social media where a bullied kid can't get away from his/her tormentors because they are on them day and night virtually.

This. And while bullying back in the day may have been worse when you were physically there, the number of people seeing it was way more limited. With social media, if you're getting bullied and tormented that sh*t is spreading to literally hundreds or more which just amps up the embarrassment.

 

[BCClone]

Yeah, and now there is a push to prohibit suspensions in some school districts. We can't send kids home who are greatly disrupting the learning experience of other kids because the parents don't want to have to deal with them. Let's just let the worst 5% screw up school for every other kid and make every day at work a living hell for the teachers.

A classic case of confusing correlation with causation:

The Case for Banning School Suspensions

We need to try to understand, not penalize, students when they act out.

progressive.org

Who would have imagined that kids who misbehave enough to get suspended might be more likely to cross the line into criminal activity?

Results of one such ban:

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/knowledge-bank/articles/2018-01-24/suspension-bans-do-real-academic-damage

Suspensions should be served in a room, the size of a coat closet, by themselves. Or for big schools, a room supervised with whomever and allowed no interaction. That would be true punishment. Make them do their assignments and then sit quietly with nothing else besides a book to read.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

So on the topic of bullying, does anybody else feel like maybe it's less harsh than when we were kids?

I'm 39 and I remember middle school and high school being absolutely brutal. This was with a class size of 40 in a town of under 2,000 in central Iowa. The small **** like what shoes you worse, if you wore Nike vs Wranglers, if you wore a shirt from the mall vs Walmart, etc was huge back then. When I talk to my 5th grader and try to get him to wear something different out of fear of bullying, he's like "why, kids don't care these days what you wear?".

Man, if a kid had a lisp, people thought they could be gay, they were from another country, or had a slight odor, they'd be nearly stoned every day. I was fortunate to not be in the super popular cliche or the unpopular group; I was largely invisible but it was hard to see the crap go on.

Since our kids are only in K and 5th, we might just be too early on the train, but it feels like even at those ages the pressures are just so much different nowadays. And it's possible it goes on but we just don't see/hear about it given the ages and our kids probably being in a similar "invisible" group. It seems less of a peer bullying and more of a societal pressure, at least at this age.

On the bullying subject, having lived in the country and being raised in a rural school then getting married to a metro girl.....after trading stories we have both come to the conclusion that although rural schools have there shortcomings, it is much more preferable to a metro school. Any and all things that happen in the country happen in the city just magnified based alone on the sheer volume of students and the fact it's impossible to know everyone. When you know everyone, and their families know each other, although pranks happen often, they are tempered by the fact mom and dad know their mom and dad. In the city.....that isn't always the case and so what if I hurt someone's feelings.

 

[CycloneErik]

So on the topic of bullying, does anybody else feel like maybe it's less harsh than when we were kids?

I'm 39 and I remember middle school and high school being absolutely brutal. This was with a class size of 40 in a town of under 2,000 in central Iowa. The small **** like what shoes you worse, if you wore Nike vs Wranglers, if you wore a shirt from the mall vs Walmart, etc was huge back then. When I talk to my 5th grader and try to get him to wear something different out of fear of bullying, he's like "why, kids don't care these days what you wear?".

Man, if a kid had a lisp, people thought they could be gay, they were from another country, or had a slight odor, they'd be nearly stoned every day. I was fortunate to not be in the super popular cliche or the unpopular group; I was largely invisible but it was hard to see the crap go on.

Since our kids are only in K and 5th, we might just be too early on the train, but it feels like even at those ages the pressures are just so much different nowadays. And it's possible it goes on but we just don't see/hear about it given the ages and our kids probably being in a similar "invisible" group. It seems less of a peer bullying and more of a societal pressure, at least at this age.

I'm 49 with the same memories of middle school and high school, covering a suburb and a small school (class size of 33).
Not just that anything counted, but just not being beaten up every single day was a challenge in itself.

Maybe that's still ongoing and kiddo here is too young. I sure hope it's not the same.

 

[Sousaclone]

This. And while bullying back in the day may have been worse when you were physically there, the number of people seeing it was way more limited. With social media, if you're getting bullied and tormented that sh*t is spreading to literally hundreds or more which just amps up the embarrassment.

Oh yeah. Now the embarrassment spreads quickly and widely over social media AND the "praise" to the bully also gets spreads even further, encouraging either copy-cats or the behavior even further.

 

[deadeyededric]

Thought this was the start of Dear Penthouse.

"as she released my monster from it's denim prison.... "

 

[BCClone]

So on the topic of bullying, does anybody else feel like maybe it's less harsh than when we were kids?

I'm 39 and I remember middle school and high school being absolutely brutal. This was with a class size of 40 in a town of under 2,000 in central Iowa. The small **** like what shoes you worse, if you wore Nike vs Wranglers, if you wore a shirt from the mall vs Walmart, etc was huge back then. When I talk to my 5th grader and try to get him to wear something different out of fear of bullying, he's like "why, kids don't care these days what you wear?".

Man, if a kid had a lisp, people thought they could be gay, they were from another country, or had a slight odor, they'd be nearly stoned every day. I was fortunate to not be in the super popular cliche or the unpopular group; I was largely invisible but it was hard to see the crap go on.

Since our kids are only in K and 5th, we might just be too early on the train, but it feels like even at those ages the pressures are just so much different nowadays. And it's possible it goes on but we just don't see/hear about it given the ages and our kids probably being in a similar "invisible" group. It seems less of a peer bullying and more of a societal pressure, at least at this age.

Boys have it better than girls now. Girls are something you can’t even describe, the emotional bullying is beyond your wildest imagination. The social media will amp it up since petty things can happen 24/7.

Best thing is to be involved with their activities, and be the hardass. Honestly, it will save your daughter some if they are slightly concern of dad the Ahole. Not all, but enough to not be unbearable for the kid.

 

[KnappShack]

So on the topic of bullying, does anybody else feel like maybe it's less harsh than when we were kids?

I'm 39 and I remember middle school and high school being absolutely brutal. This was with a class size of 40 in a town of under 2,000 in central Iowa. The small **** like what shoes you worse, if you wore Nike vs Wranglers, if you wore a shirt from the mall vs Walmart, etc was huge back then. When I talk to my 5th grader and try to get him to wear something different out of fear of bullying, he's like "why, kids don't care these days what you wear?".

Man, if a kid had a lisp, people thought they could be gay, they were from another country, or had a slight odor, they'd be nearly stoned every day. I was fortunate to not be in the super popular cliche or the unpopular group; I was largely invisible but it was hard to see the crap go on.

Since our kids are only in K and 5th, we might just be too early on the train, but it feels like even at those ages the pressures are just so much different nowadays. And it's possible it goes on but we just don't see/hear about it given the ages and our kids probably being in a similar "invisible" group. It seems less of a peer bullying and more of a societal pressure, at least at this age.

So the kids in the toddler room will rally to a crying student. Hugs and everything.

It sure seems to be different.

Must drive those "yell and give whoopin' to make kids tough" crowd.

See my dad used to come home and kick my ass and I turned out just fine....uh huh.

 

[JM4CY]

Boys have it better than girls now. Girls are something you can’t even describe, the emotional bullying is beyond your wildest imagination. The social media will amp it up since petty things can happen 24/7.

Best thing is to be involved with their activities, and be the hardass. Honestly, it will save your daughter some if they are slightly concern of dad the Ahole. Not all, but enough to not be unbearable for the kid.

Girls are awful, awful ass holes. They are "dog eat dog" and DGAF. I just do not get it. I would almost tell my daughter to stay away from all of them and encourage her to just be friends with boys. But I was a boy once and I definitely don't trust those little sh*theads either.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

Boys have it better than girls now. Girls are something you can’t even describe, the emotional bullying is beyond your wildest imagination. The social media will amp it up since petty things can happen 24/7.

Best thing is to be involved with their activities, and be the hardass. Honestly, it will save your daughter some if they are slightly concern of dad the Ahole. Not all, but enough to not be unbearable for the kid.

Agree. And my wife had to school me on just how petty and ruthless girls at that age can be. I had no idea. As a guy, when I was in school scrapping in the parking lot was about as bad of thing I could imagine. But after it was over, you brushed yourself off, and the next day most times when you see your adversary, unless there is this deep seeded hatred things get talked over...........and it's over. Not so much for girls........then and now.

 

[cycloner29]

Pretty sad when the students and their parents run the asylum these days. Teachers and admins can't do anything.

Sure I graduated back in the early '80's from a small school, but everyone knew everyone since kindergarten so there were really no problems. We also didn't social media right at our fingertips.

Not all parents hold their kids accountable these days. It was bad enough when my son played football at Ames that the coaches went and picked up the kids for weightlifting sessions because the parents were "too busy" to do it. Then when kids that skipped weightlifting, their parents bitched and moaned when their kid wasn't playing. Glad our kids our out of high school, but feel for those that have to yet.

 

[Gunnerclone]

Very valid point. School ended at 3:30 and now there is no escape. Failed to think about that, especially since I'm not on Facebook, Tik Tok, etc. I hope to be able to keep our boys away from that crap too.

I think the physical strain was worse back then (I’m about the same vintage as you). If someone wasn’t getting beaten, taped, chased with cars, etc. in one way or another it was a pretty rare day.

Now I think it’s just easier to mentally torment people so that is what happens.