Texas Tech won the conference and was a shot away from the National Champions. We went 9-9 and lost in the first round. The argument is we had enough talent to be competing at the top of the conference and make a good run in the tourney. The disparity in success between ISU and TT that season far outweighed the disparity in talent.
Williams & Blum Pod: How good is the ISU basketball job?
- Thread starter ChrisMWilliams
- Start date
I don’t know folks. Quantitatively, ISU is pretty unlucky this yearView attachment 82602
Iowa State ranking pitifully in the KenPom luck stat is pretty constant throughout the Prohm era.
That says either... Prohm really has just been that unlucky... or you could invert the stat and call it a "clutch" stat, measuring how efficiently you distribute your net points in close games to manufacture Ws.
Prohm has not been good in close games. My normal thoughts there is that winning close games is mostly luck and teams regress to the 50-50 mean in the long term, but Prohm has tried my patience there.
Say Prohm and the team finished off three of the good teams we had good shots at (or even had on the ropes, objectively, with a few of them). We would be 3-15 in the Big 12 with three good wins.
Prohm might be back under those circumstances. Pollard would be looking for excuses to keep him given our fiscal situation, and a few big wins to point to with Hunter coming in... "Coach Prohm has done a fine job under the most difficult of circumstances with COVID this year and, despite having nearly a new roster, managed to win some big games and keep many other close. The team is on the cusp of something. With the returning talent and an ace PG recruit coming in, I think it is only appropriate to give him one more year to prove it." But that won't work now.
This lacks a lot of nuance.
For example, saying Mooney is superior based on him pursuing a D league career. By this measure Naz was a better college player than Kane.
The coaching and culture of a program goes a long ways to the performance of a team of players. Do you think those TT players do as well that year if under this staff?
I agree with this.
It's like a receipt for your favorite stew. There are a ton of ingredients. Take one or two out and it might end up tasting like ****. More than one thing went wrong here.
My argument was against the notion we were somehow obviously the most talented Big 12 team that year.
We were one of the more talented ones, yes, but when you line our roster up against Texas Tech, Kansas State, and even Kansas that year, we're hardly head-and-shoulders above any of them. We're more likely below at least TTU and KSU considering how inexperienced our two most talented players were compared to theirs.
I agree, the '19 season was frustrating and could have been more, but I don't think we were fated to somehow win the Big 12. Too much competition there, even if we probably should have been better than 9-9.
Prohm has been horrible at out of bounds plays and situational play-calling, granted... we were used to Fred who may have been the best in CBB in that area.
Prohm's subbing has always driven me nuts. Waited til the 12 min mark to sub in Wigginton each half, by that time, he would only get a max of 24 mpg assuming he didn't need a breather once in. Didn't necessarily mind he came off the bench but just terrible time management for arguably your best playmaker.
I don't think you'll get much argument from me about Beard being a better coach than Prohm.
Just saying -- the "we were the most talented!" argument is kind of dumb.
Jarrett Culver alone kind of invalidates that.
Yeah, Tyrese is taking off like a rocket in Sacramento, but he was a puppy his freshman year.
Texas Tech and Kansas State had a combination of talent and experience a cut above ours.
Arkansas has 8 players that did not play for the Hogs last season.
USC 5
TTU 5
I’m sure others but those were a few that came to my mind.
Good coaching can overcome lack of roster continuity and covid challenges
Yes. Just trying to point out why Iowa State (and others) could point to covid as a less than ideal time to happen as compared to majority of teams in Big 12. Not arguing about coaching.
I totally accept the proposition that it would be alot easier to have Iowa, Baylor, Gonzaga, etc.'s rosters this year. The schedule favors veteran teams that don't have new pieces to incorporate.
But I also think it's worth noting the reason we are incorporating so many new parts this year is because of the several recruiting failures of last year. Having to completely turn over a roster because of multiple recruiting misses is a highly risky proposition as it is.
So this is why the "bad luck" argument, which is perpetuated by way more people than just a quick blurb on your podcast, is completely lost on me. I know Steve's a good guy and I know people want to avoid the conclusion of him just not being a good coach, but a dose of "bad luck" only served to exacerbate the many existing issues.
Last edited:
I think it's 3rd or 4th best job in the league.
You can't throw out conference tournaments. When you combine conference tournament titles and conference regular season titles, outside of KU you have the following titles:
ISU: 7
OU: 3.5 (one regular season split)
OSU: 3
Mizzou: 2
UT: 2 (1 out right, 2 splits)
KSU: 1 (2 splits)
BU: 1
TTU: .5
WVU: 0
TCU: 0
We have arguably the best, but probably the 2nd best fanbase in the conference. We have twice as many conference/tournament titles as the next closest school.
KU is #1 obviously, and UT's #2 just based on resources and in-state talent. After that there's a good argument between ISU, OU, OSU, and WVU. These jobs are pretty close, IMO.
You can't throw out conference tournaments. When you combine conference tournament titles and conference regular season titles, outside of KU you have the following titles:
ISU: 7
OU: 3.5 (one regular season split)
OSU: 3
Mizzou: 2
UT: 2 (1 out right, 2 splits)
KSU: 1 (2 splits)
BU: 1
TTU: .5
WVU: 0
TCU: 0
We have arguably the best, but probably the 2nd best fanbase in the conference. We have twice as many conference/tournament titles as the next closest school.
KU is #1 obviously, and UT's #2 just based on resources and in-state talent. After that there's a good argument between ISU, OU, OSU, and WVU. These jobs are pretty close, IMO.
Last edited:
Here's how I'd rank them
1. Kansas
2. Texas
3. ISU
4. OU
5. OSU
6. WVU
7. Tech
8. KSU
9. Baylor
10. TCU
1. Kansas
2. Texas
3. ISU
4. OU
5. OSU
6. WVU
7. Tech
8. KSU
9. Baylor
10. TCU
Just a thought here, most if not all of Heacocks adjustments came after halftime. As an assistant, he perhaps could be away from his players a bit to organize and come back and discuss.
As a head coach, does Progm have that luxury. This adjustment whether after halftime or during the game, also falls on assistants. If you want to be “discovered “ as an assistant - step up or step out. There is more than just recruiting.
During the game, does Prohms assistants have his ear?
I agree with you and CW. I think what people are latching on to is the word "luck". What is luck? A very common quote is that good luck "is when preparation meets opportunity." So one could infer that "bad luck" is when a lack of preparation meets adversity. So you can accept that Prohm has bad luck, in the case that he was not prepared for the situation at hand, without accepting that this scenario is purely a cirmstance of chance and poor him. He is the leader of this team and the fact that they are not prepared for this is on him. That lack of preparation is on him. The adversity was brought by the outside world. So why is he experiencing bad luck while others are not? It's his lack of preparation. I think you guys did a great job of addressing that.
Let's not pretend like any of this had to do with bad luck. Prohm was a bad coach with a talented team and is a bad coach with an untalented team. Those of us with a decent understanding of basketball recognized it in the first few years, now everyone does.
I would also point out that our floor is really low. We can be absolutely terrible in our bad years. Unwatchable.
We also haven't been past the Elite 8 in the modern era, and we haven't got there in 20 years (holy **** that statement makes me feel ancient).
These factors probably work against our perception.
We also haven't been past the Elite 8 in the modern era, and we haven't got there in 20 years (holy **** that statement makes me feel ancient).
These factors probably work against our perception.
That team you compared them to made it to the NCAA title game. And you kind of blew off the fact that both THT, and Haliburton especially are as good or better than Culver right now. The ISU team was more talented. No way around it.
To the people complaining about the luck discussion:
We all get annoyed by how long Jamie's willing to let a coach struggle, but his willingness to give people excess time is really attractive to coaches. I have little doubt it made this job more appealing to Matt Campbell.
I realize some people want Chris and Brent to breathe fire when things are bad, but come on. They both are part of the Cyclone Radio Network and are offered some pretty major access to these programs. They really have to be as fair, often to the point of excessively deferential to maintain these relationships and keep that access. The CF podcast is the only place Matt Campbell will give a long form interview. That's not an accident.
As long as they aren't pushing a "Steve needs more time narrative" (which they clearly aren't), it seems that being as understanding and diplomatic as possible is in their interest, and in the interest of those who enjoy their content.
We all get annoyed by how long Jamie's willing to let a coach struggle, but his willingness to give people excess time is really attractive to coaches. I have little doubt it made this job more appealing to Matt Campbell.
I realize some people want Chris and Brent to breathe fire when things are bad, but come on. They both are part of the Cyclone Radio Network and are offered some pretty major access to these programs. They really have to be as fair, often to the point of excessively deferential to maintain these relationships and keep that access. The CF podcast is the only place Matt Campbell will give a long form interview. That's not an accident.
As long as they aren't pushing a "Steve needs more time narrative" (which they clearly aren't), it seems that being as understanding and diplomatic as possible is in their interest, and in the interest of those who enjoy their content.
Latest posts
-
-
Christian Wiggins out for the 2026-27 season with a torn achilles- Latest: CloneFan65
-
-
Artificial Intelligence: How are you using it in everyday life?
- Latest: Cmonwhatarewedoinghereman
-
