*** Official Iowa State Season Thread ***

[Statefan10]

So Haliburton has 23 points and 9 assists for the Sacramento Kings the other night, Horton-Tucker scores 7 for the LA Lakers, and Wigginton has 28 points and 7 assists in the G league. What do they all have in common? They were all recruited by Prohm and they would all be playing for Iowa State this season if they hadn't left early to turn pro. I certainly don't blame any of them for going pro, but imagine how different the season would be with those guys in the starting five.

When you take that much talent off your roster and you add to it the incredible misfortune our program has endured this season, it's easy to understand how things have turned so far south. I think Prohm is a wonderful human being and I believe he's the victim of the perfect storm of unfortunate circumstances. I also think he's a much better coach than many on this board think. I hate when bad things happen to good people.

Also, why do people keep saying this about Steve as if it helps him be a better coach? Steve is a Division 1 Basketball coach, not a high school counselor. His job is to coach basketball while helping kids throughout their college careers, not the other way around. I know that sounds harsh but it's a harsh reality.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

I think most disheartening part is that we are this bad and our freshmen can't even get a sniff of playing time. Walker has fallen out of favor and Dubar and Blackwell can't find the floor. We stink and we play 2 seniors, 4 juniors and a sophomore.

Yeah I was going to post something like this, but wanted to catch up in case someone else mentioned it already. And you nailed it. What greater indictment on this 2020 class of supposedly really good freshmen than playing them a grand total of zero minutes? Not that I think they'd have pushed us to victory by any means, but these kids aren't going to be thrilled about not being able to crack the rotation on a winless Big 12 team. I see mass attrition coming. Sadly, I'm not sure it's even a bad thing. As bad as they've been, with occasional flashes from Walker, or completely non-existent in Blackwell's case, I'm sure we could bring better players in next year.

 

[gocubs2118]

Maybe because they are busy earning a living?

They aren’t too busy going behind the scenes and putting in a good word for Fred.

 

[jsb]

They aren’t too busy going behind the scenes and putting in a good word for Fred.

That’s kind of mean of them for TJs sake....

 

[NoCreativity]

So Haliburton has 23 points and 9 assists for the Sacramento Kings the other night, Horton-Tucker scores 7 for the LA Lakers, and Wigginton has 28 points and 7 assists in the G league. What do they all have in common? They were all recruited by Prohm and they would all be playing for Iowa State this season if they hadn't left early to turn pro. I certainly don't blame any of them for going pro, but imagine how different the season would be with those guys in the starting five.

When you take that much talent off your roster and you add to it the incredible misfortune our program has endured this season, it's easy to understand how things have turned so far south. I think Prohm is a wonderful human being and I believe he's the victim of the perfect storm of unfortunate circumstances. I also think he's a much better coach than many on this board think. I hate when bad things happen to good people.

Remember when he had those 3 guys on the same team along the leading scorer in the Big 12 and he went 9-9? Also, losses to the NBA dont just happen to Iowa State

Would we be better if all those guys stayed? Obviously, would Duke and Kentucky be better this year if all the lottery picks they had stayed 3 or 4 years now?

Your post reflects the assumption that Iowa State plays in a vacuum where none of this stuff happens to other teams.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Point 2 here is what I was most upset with. I understand having solo in the game down the stretch when he is a scoring option, but last night he wasn't a scoring option. Conditt protecting the rim could have been a game changer down the stretch.

I don't have stats to back this up or anything, but I feel like Solo has always really struggled against Mark Vital. And Vital in turn usually has far and away his best games against us.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Yeah very weird situation. He is a good rebounder and does a lot of little things. Seems like something must be going on that he went from starter to nothing.

And Walker went from starting for several weeks to 0 minutes last night. Steve sucks at roster management. Granted, I do think he played the right guys last night to get the W. No way were Walker, Dubar, or Blackwell going to get us over the hump.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

I put $40 on ISU to cover +15.5 at +300 odds. Won $120

Yeah I was kicking myself for not simply taking an ISU +cover instead of Moneyline. The delicious payout made the decision for me. On my DK app, I don't think the line ever crept below ISU +6.5, so I would have been golden.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

There was no excuse for not pulling Rasir there and chewing his ass, and then putting him right back in. That s*** is inexcusable.

Looking back to the team Steve inherited from Fred, I'm not sure ISU could have hired a guy that chewed ass. I think a coach like that would have lost more than just Jameel McKay that year.

 

[NoCreativity]

Yeah I was going to post something like this, but wanted to catch up in case someone else mentioned it already. And you nailed it. What greater indictment on this 2020 class of supposedly really good freshmen than playing them a grand total of zero minutes? Not that I think they'd have pushed us to victory by any means, but these kids aren't going to be thrilled about not being able to crack the rotation on a winless Big 12 team. I see mass attrition coming. Sadly, I'm not sure it's even a bad thing. As bad as they've been, with occasional flashes from Walker, or completely non-existent in Blackwell's case, I'm sure we could bring better players in next year.

This is where Im at as well. I could be mistaken, but none of these freshman look like players who turn around an 0-18 team. If history is any indication its highly likely 2 of them wont be on the team next year.

The new coaching staff needs to try to retain Foster and Hunter, then build around Bolton and Hinson for next year. Bring in a couple freshman and transfers, keep Johnson and Harris around for bench depth and its a good start for being competitive next year.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

This is where Im at as well. I could be mistaken, but none of these freshman look like players who turn around an 0-18 team. If history is any indication its highly likely 2 of them wont be on the team next year.

The new coaching staff needs to try to retain Foster and Hunter, then build around Bolton and Hinson for next year. Bring in a couple freshman and transfers, keep Johnson and Harris around for bench depth and its a good start for being competitive next year.

Watching Dubar and Blackwell this year, when they've actually been out there, is what we "missed out on" last year with Anderson and Leech. LOL

 

[Statefan10]

And Walker went from starting for several weeks to 0 minutes last night. Steve sucks at roster management. Granted, I do think he played the right guys last night to get the W. No way were Walker, Dubar, or Blackwell going to get us over the hump.

Steve said after the OU game "we need better production, better perforce and better energy from certain guys to be able to beat teams like Oklahoma."

That was in reference as to whether he found a lineup after benching Walker and Johnson. So essentially, when talking specifically about guards, we have a total of 4 guards that Prohm believes is able to play against teams like Oklahoma...

 

[Statefan10]

Looking back to the team Steve inherited from Fred, I'm not sure ISU could have hired a guy that chewed ass. I think a coach like that would have lost more than just Jameel McKay that year.

Nah those guys would've been fine. Jameel was probably the only guy that might've had a problem, but you need to remember that Fred did hold our guys accountable for their play on the court.

There were lots of times Fred benched guys for bonehead mistakes or not doing what they were told. Or Fred would pull them, they'd sit right next to him while he discussed what they did wrong, and then he'd put them back in.

Getting a 10 second violation while walking the ball up the court is embarrassing, shows a lack of focus and a lack of discipline. Steve not taking him out there was eye opening, but Steve not showing any emotion after that was almost more embarrassing than the violation itself.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Nah those guys would've been fine. Jameel was probably the only guy that might've had a problem, but you need to remember that Fred did hold our guys accountable for their play on the court.

There were lots of times Fred benched guys for bonehead mistakes or not doing what they were told. Or Fred would pull them, they'd sit right next to him while he discussed what they did wrong, and then he'd put them back in.

Getting a 10 second violation while walking the ball up the court is embarrassing, shows a lack of focus and a lack of discipline. Steve not taking him out there was eye opening, but Steve not showing any emotion after that was almost more embarrassing than the violation itself.

Yeah. The guy is checked out. It's a miracle the guys are even competing still at this point.

 

[exCYtable]

Perhaps he's attained the illustrious distinction of "random Steve Prohm doghouse guy". A proud lineage, including past greats Jameel McKay, Cam Lard and Terrence Lewis.

And Lindell Wiggington

 

[larrysarmy]

This is where Im at as well. I could be mistaken, but none of these freshman look like players who turn around an 0-18 team. If history is any indication its highly likely 2 of them wont be on the team next year.

The new coaching staff needs to try to retain Foster and Hunter, then build around Bolton and Hinson for next year. Bring in a couple freshman and transfers, keep Johnson and Harris around for bench depth and its a good start for being competitive next year.

I think this is the most ideal, if we are looking at optimistic scenarios. Keeping Walker in the fold is also important, kid has the frame and length to play at this level, was just put in a bad spot this year coming off the injury, lack of preseason and basically getting all his major min in the big 12 grinder, most freshman struggle with that.

 

[Statefan10]

Yeah. The guy is checked out. It's a miracle the guys are even competing still at this point.

Yeah I agree. We're still a Division 1 team though. We have talent and we have some guys who can shoot. If we catch a team on an off night / we play extremely well, we can make things interesting.

What's telling is that whenever a game gets close, we crash and burn. It's honestly comical at this point. That, in my mind, is due to coaching. Steve's close losses all look incredibly similar, especially offensively. It's essentially 3 guys standing around while 2 guys run a PnR. Steve doesn't know how to coach to win games. His wins usually stem from his talent being able to play better than the opposing team's talent.

 

[fsanford]

So Haliburton has 23 points and 9 assists for the Sacramento Kings the other night, Horton-Tucker scores 7 for the LA Lakers, and Wigginton has 28 points and 7 assists in the G league. What do they all have in common? They were all recruited by Prohm and they would all be playing for Iowa State this season if they hadn't left early to turn pro. I certainly don't blame any of them for going pro, but imagine how different the season would be with those guys in the starting five.

When you take that much talent off your roster and you add to it the incredible misfortune our program has endured this season, it's easy to understand how things have turned so far south. I think Prohm is a wonderful human being and I believe he's the victim of the perfect storm of unfortunate circumstances. I also think he's a much better coach than many on this board think. I hate when bad things happen to good people.

With regards to the 3 players you mentioned, the combined record when they were on ISU rosters was 48-48.

If there is 1 thing ISU cannot do is have years without a point guard on the roster.

Especially given the fact Prohm's best sucess was with guys named Payne, Morris and Haliburton running the point.

Steve develops point guards because those guys literally learn the playbook and run the team.
They are given a huge responsibility, Steve certainly is not about a lot of hands on coaching on game day. Point guards are expected to manage the game and have the freedom to call the plays. They do well in the NBA because they have to become coaches at a young age.


Now when that is your SOP you damn well better be stocked at that position. I don't care if it JC Holloway, (the guy ran the offense very effectively).

The 5 shooting guard model does not solve the problem.

The unfortunate thing he apparently is addressing the problem have 2 point guards coming in next year, but it is one of those things too little too late. You cannot risk they are the solution to the problem and keep Steve around.

 

[heitclone]

With regards to the 3 players you mentioned, the combined record when they were on ISU rosters was 48-48.

If there is 1 thing ISU cannot do is have years without a point guard on the roster.

Especially given the fact Prohm's best sucess was with guys named Payne, Morris and Haliburton running the point.

Steve develops point guards because those guys literally learn the playbook and run the team.
They are given a huge responsibility, Steve certainly is not about a lot of hands on coaching on game day. Point guards are expected to manage the game and have the freedom to call the plays. They do well in the NBA because they have to become coaches at a young age.


Now when that is your SOP you damn well better be stocked at that position. I don't care if it JC Holloway, (the guy ran the offense very effectively).

The 5 shooting guard model does not solve the problem.

The unfortunate thing he apparently is addressing the problem have 2 point guards coming in next year, but it is one of those things too little too late. You cannot risk they are the solution to the problem and keep Steve around.

You don't need to have a PG. KU, Tech, WV and OU all run their offense through SG's. You just need to adjust your offense to fit that players strengths. You can't stick your guns and hope they'll eventually pick it up and expect to win games. I agree that for Prohm, he NEEDS a PG but teams with coaches like the 4 teams I mentioned in the first sentence, will find ways to adjust.

 

[xboxfever]

With regards to the 3 players you mentioned, the combined record when they were on ISU rosters was 48-48.

If there is 1 thing ISU cannot do is have years without a point guard on the roster.

Especially given the fact Prohm's best sucess was with guys named Payne, Morris and Haliburton running the point.

Steve develops point guards because those guys literally learn the playbook and run the team.
They are given a huge responsibility, Steve certainly is not about a lot of hands on coaching on game day. Point guards are expected to manage the game and have the freedom to call the plays. They do well in the NBA because they have to become coaches at a young age.


Now when that is your SOP you damn well better be stocked at that position. I don't care if it JC Holloway, (the guy ran the offense very effectively).

The 5 shooting guard model does not solve the problem.

The unfortunate thing he apparently is addressing the problem have 2 point guards coming in next year, but it is one of those things too little too late. You cannot risk they are the solution to the problem and keep Steve around.

I’m tired of hearing how Prohm develops point guards. He doesn’t. He inherited Caanan at Murray State and inherited Monte Morris at ISU. He didn’t develop either one into the players they are. He gets credit for finding Payne and Haliburton but he didn’t develop them either. In Tyreses first game we seen that Prohm hit the jackpot with finding him. He was really good from day one and got better with game experience. He was supposed to develop Wigginton into a point guard and he never got better at the point guard position. He’s been having Bolton run the point off and on for two years and he hasn’t gotten better at the point either. If he was so good at developing point guards, why is no one actually getting better at the point under him? That narrative about him developing point guards is a myth.