*** Official Iowa State Season Thread ***

[Sigmapolis]

I think people are underestimating what Tyrese could have done as a freshman. He simply played the role he was asked to play. Yes, Tyrese wasn’t a huge create his own shot type of guy but he had the talent to be the PG from day one if he was given the opportunity. I don’t see how the offense would grind to a halt with him but with NWB it wouldn’t? Babb was a very solid player and did some good things but it always drove me crazy how slowly he played on offense. Tyrese made Conditt look great at times last year.. I sometimes like to imagine how good he could have made Lard look if he was running PG and Lard was on the floor more often.

Many people often defend Jacobson over Lard and Babb over Wigginton but if that was truly the right call, why did that team finish 9-9 in conference? Something didn’t work and I think it’s reasonable to question Prohm for those decisions. I don’t think Haliburton-Wigginton-Shayok-THT and Lard led lineup finishes 9-9 but that’s just my opinion and I respect other people’s opinions who disagree with me.

The problems with that team wouldn't have been solved with a slightly different distribution of minutes.

The problems with that team were much deeper, if you think back. It was never good at rebounding and defense (though it was passable much of the season), but the real problem was ego. They were kicking butt in January, got big heads about themselves, stopped playing hard and playing together, and things went to hell in February.

That is on the players for letting success go to their heads but also on Prohm for not managing and motivating better.

 

[Nader_uggghhh]

Babb was, is, and will continue to be a better basketball player than Wigginton. He was our best PnR and on-ball defender while playing on one leg and it wasn't even close. Trade Babb for Wigginton in that lineup and you lose possessions to turnovers and rebounding, play worse defense and lose our ability to switch 1-4.

 

[awd4cy]

Ugh this again.

Tell me who he takes minutes from.

You have four choices.

A) Nick Weiler-Babb
B) Tyrese Haliburton
C) Marial Shayok
D) Talen Horton-Tucker

Make a clear case he deserved those minutes over (at least) one of them.

Damn, that looks like a talented bunch. I would have to assume we won more than half of our Big 12 games that year.

 

[heitclone]

Damn, that looks like a talented bunch. I would have to assume we won more than half of our Big 12 games that year.

Just liked you'd assume with a roster of Niang, McKay, Nader, Thomas, Morris and Burton (5 NBA players) we'd finish higher than 6th in the big 12?

 

[Sigmapolis]

Just liked you'd assume with a roster of Niang, McKay, Nader, Thomas, Morris and Burton (5 NBA players) we'd finish higher than 6th in the big 12?

Or one with six future NBA guys (Morris, Mitrou-Long, Thomas, Dejean-Jones, Niang, and Nader) and two really solid college players with international careers (Hogue and McKay) would only go 12-6 after going 2-2 the last four games, when 4-0 wins you the conference outright and 3-1 ties you for a title with the hated Jayhawks.

Then, of course, let's remember what that team did in the NCAA tournament.

 

[awd4cy]

Do people that freak out about 9-9 realize that 12-6 is our best conference finish since 2000 and that 2013-2014, arguably our best team since 2000, finished 11-7?

Just saying it's not some monumental flop. Especially considering they were projected to finish bottom half before the season.

They were 7-3 to start out. Then finished 2-8. Yikes, that took a pretty epic collapse to do that.

 

[NoCreativity]

Just liked you'd assume with a roster of Niang, McKay, Nader, Thomas, Morris and Burton (5 NBA players) we'd finish higher than 6th in the big 12?

Both scenarios have one thing in common, Steve Prohm. Two of the most stacked rosters I've ever seen in my lifetime and he was 19-17 with them in the Big 12.

 

[NoCreativity]

People can rehash all the seasons all they want, bottom line is Prohm has achieved average results with stacked teams, and disastrous results when he doesn't have much talent to work with.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

People can rehash all the seasons all they want, bottom line is Prohm has achieved average results with stacked teams, and disastrous results when he doesn't have much talent to work with.

You know, lately you have been fairly reasonable. I was waiting for you to pull down your pants and crack us a smile once again. I'm not defending CSP anymore......but this Sesame Street "re-image" the past is not necessary with Steve Prohm. There is nothing average about a sweet 16, 26 wins or conference tourney hardware. Unless you want to say every coach we have had outside of LE has achieved "average" results.

 

[Thompsonclone]

Babb was, is, and will continue to be a better basketball player than Wigginton. He was our best PnR and on-ball defender while playing on one leg and it wasn't even close. Trade Babb for Wigginton in that lineup and you lose possessions to turnovers and rebounding, play worse defense and lose our ability to switch 1-4.

Making a few less mistakes doesn’t make you a better basketball player. Wigginton won us several games by being the best guy on the court. NWB never did that once. Wigginton averaged almost 5 more points in 8 less minutes, shot a higher % from 3 and only averaged 1 less rebound in those 8 less minutes per game.

 

[NoCreativity]

You know, lately you have been fairly reasonable. I was waiting for you to pull down your pants and crack us a smile once again. I'm not defending CSP anymore......but this Sesame Street "re-image" the past is not necessary with Steve Prohm. There is nothing average about a sweet 16, 26 wins or conference tourney hardware. Unless you want to say every coach we have had outside of LE has achieved "average" results.

Well, those are the two years where I felt they really could have been special, so maybe average isn't the right wording. They definitely were disappointing and underachieving then in my opinion.

 

[ISUTex]

Making a few less mistakes doesn’t make you a better basketball player. Wigginton won us several games by being the best guy on the court. NWB never did that once.

I was ok with Wigginton not starting, but it irked me that he would usually sit out like the first 8-10 minutes of the first half or second half. Never understood that.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Both scenarios have one thing in common, Steve Prohm. Two of the most stacked rosters I've ever seen in my lifetime and he was 19-17 with them in the Big 12.

The most stacked ISU roster I have ever seen (save maybe Fizer/Tinsley) lost to UAB.

Weird **** happens with teenagers playing basketball.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

Well, those are the two years where I felt they really could have been special, so maybe average isn't the right wording. They definitely were disappointing and underachieving then in my opinion.

I know.....because we have been around and around with this. And you are exhibit A to why CSP never had a chance. That's fine. He has done enough bridge burning the last two years I don't think you need to keep going back and diminishing some very good and fun seasons just because you don't like him.

 

[CycloneErik]

Or one with six future NBA guys (Morris, Mitrou-Long, Thomas, Dejean-Jones, Niang, and Nader) and two really solid college players with international careers (Hogue and McKay) would only go 12-6 after going 2-2 the last four games, when 4-0 wins you the conference outright and 3-1 ties you for a title with the hated Jayhawks.

Then, of course, let's remember what that team did in the NCAA tournament.

Yup. No elite team or coach has ever suffered a loss like that in the NCAAs.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Yup. No elite team or coach has ever suffered a loss like that in the NCAAs.

Just sayin' there's some selectivity from some on here in terms of which underachievement relative to the talent on the roster they want to prioritize. A team with six NBA guys should have won the Big 12 regular season.

Period. Over even Kansas. I doubt we'll ever see such a collection of talent in cardinal and gold ever again.

But it didn't.

 

[Iastfan112]

Making a few less mistakes doesn’t make you a better basketball player. Wigginton won us several games by being the best guy on the court. NWB never did that once. Wigginton averaged almost 5 more points in 8 less minutes, shot a higher % from 3 and only averaged 1 less rebound in those 8 less minutes per game.

Never did it once.

Iowa State vs. Tulsa Box Score (Men), November 17, 2017 | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Iowa State vs. Tulsa Box Score (Men), November 17, 2017

www.sports-reference.com

Iowa State vs. Appalachian State Box Score (Men), November 16, 2017 | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Iowa State vs. Appalachian State Box Score (Men), November 16, 2017

www.sports-reference.com

There were a number other games out there where NWB was our best player on the court but I narrowed it down to wins where the margin was very close.

Also you fail to mention assists or turnovers, you know, the critical things for a point guard. Something that NWB was pretty good at and Wigginton was a mess.

 

[CycloneErik]

Just sayin' there's some selectivity from some on here in terms of which underachievement relative to the talent on the roster they want to prioritize. A team with six NBA guys should have won the Big 12 regular season.

Period. Over even Kansas. I doubt we'll ever see such a collection of talent in cardinal and gold ever again.

But it didn't.

Underachievement is a during the season thing. The NCAAs are a whole other beast.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

The most stacked ISU roster I have ever seen (save maybe Fizer/Tinsley) lost to UAB.

Weird **** happens with teenagers playing basketball.

And "only" went 12-6/25-9.

 

[NoCreativity]

I know.....because we have been around and around with this. And you are exhibit A to why CSP never had a chance. That's fine. He has done enough bridge burning the last two years I don't think you need to keep going back and diminishing some very good and fun seasons just because you don't like him.

Ok, ill admit I've been too hard on him and admit we've had some really fun times with him as well. People were talking about old seasons so I thought I'd give an opinion. Not everyone was around on these boards 4 years ago either. I'm jsut ready to move on and give someone else a shot now.