What to do with Coach Prohm Poll..

[NENick]

As long as these seven are back next year...

Harris
Jackson
Hunter
Bolton
Hinson
Johnson
Foster

...then I am not sure any of our departures would be net negatives.

Of course, you can afford to have most of your freshman class not pan out when you're an established program who can reliably recruit superior replacements. If the Walker-Blackwell-Dubar-Foster class is mostly a dud, and it is so far, then we really have no hope for the future and Prohm will be given a cardboard box to pack up his stuff.

I can't agree that the freshman class "is mostly a dud." Foster really hasn't had a chance (I assume he's why you used mostly instead of completely), Dubar has impressed me as the type of player Beard would love, and Walker has shown some flashes of real athleticism. If he develops as a ball handler he could be really good. I just haven't seen enough of Blackwell.

 

[ISUCyclone06]

Obviously not impressed with any of the freshman as future studs. But most have not got the chance to develop with a noncon schedule. Foster is lost but has the athletism and skills to grow. Dubar I really like but inconsistent (freshman). The other two I have not seen enough to even comment other than pigtails are cool!

 

[Sigmapolis]

I can't agree that the freshman class "is mostly a dud." Foster really hasn't had a chance (I assume he's why you used mostly instead of completely), Dubar has impressed me as the type of player Beard would love, and Walker has shown some flashes of real athleticism. If he develops as a ball handler he could be really good. I just haven't seen enough of Blackwell.

Maybe I am giving up on them too early. I hope I am very wrong. But I cannot remember many guys for us who eventually became solid players who were not at least contributors (e.g., in the top 7-8 as a part of the rotation, playing 15+ minutes per game) when they were freshmen.

Again, I hope I am very wrong, but the four of them are not seeing the floor much in front of upperclassmen who aren't exactly lighting the world on fire right now. If they cannot overcome what is in front of them right now, then, well, I am not sure how much we can depend on them long-term.

It reminds me unfortunately of Terrence Lewis, a well-regarded 4* when coming into Ames. He was on a bad team his freshman year, yet he still couldn't get much playing time ahead of the other guards/wings. If you cannot make an impact on a depleted roster like that, well, maybe you can't.

 

[ChickenNuggetMan]

Maybe I am giving up on them too early. I hope I am very wrong. But I cannot remember many guys for us who eventually became solid players who were not at least contributors (e.g., in the top 7-8 as a part of the rotation, playing 15+ minutes per game) when they were freshmen.

Again, I hope I am very wrong, but the four of them are not seeing the floor much in front of upperclassmen who aren't exactly lighting the world on fire right now. If they cannot overcome what is in front of them right now, then, well, I am not sure how much we can depend on them long-term.

It reminds me unfortunately of Terrence Lewis, a well-regarded 4* when coming into Ames. He was on a bad team his freshman year, yet he still couldn't get much playing time ahead of the other guards/wings. If you cannot make an impact on a depleted roster like that, well, maybe you can't.

Agree 100%, Sig. Any players capable of being part of a program turnaround should be among the best on this team, and vying for major playing time.

Besides Bolton, would any of these players even play on either of our good teams the past 5 years?

Side note: it was very sad writing that realizing we’ve only been good 2 of the past 5 years.

 

[Clyde4cy]

Agree 100%, Sig. Any players capable of being part of a program turnaround should be among the best on this team, and vying for major playing time.

Besides Bolton, would any of these players even play on either of our good teams the past 5 years?

Side note: it was very sad writing that realizing we’ve only been good 2 of the past 5 years.

Bolton is a good player but the 7 NCAA tournament teams of the Hoiberg/Prohm eras were absolutely loaded at the guard position. He would have played but no chance of being a starter.

 

[clone4life82]

Maybe I am giving up on them too early. I hope I am very wrong. But I cannot remember many guys for us who eventually became solid players who were not at least contributors (e.g., in the top 7-8 as a part of the rotation, playing 15+ minutes per game) when they were freshmen.

Again, I hope I am very wrong, but the four of them are not seeing the floor much in front of upperclassmen who aren't exactly lighting the world on fire right now. If they cannot overcome what is in front of them right now, then, well, I am not sure how much we can depend on them long-term.

It reminds me unfortunately of Terrence Lewis, a well-regarded 4* when coming into Ames. He was on a bad team his freshman year, yet he still couldn't get much playing time ahead of the other guards/wings. If you cannot make an impact on a depleted roster like that, well, maybe you can't.

naz

 

[Clyde4cy]

naz

Those were the days when earning 15+ bench minutes as a frosh mean’t beating out a Senior Tyrus Mcgee.

 

[cyatheart]

Here’s the best possible situation, IMO, from Prohm to succeed and begin a new phase of sustained success.

1. Understand this year is moot and run all strategies through a next year mindset.
2. Play the young core of Walker, Dubar, Dudley, Jackson as much as you can. Let Jaden run point.
3. Find some wins in Feb. You likely won’t win in January with the schedule, but for any confidence and momentum, some wins in Feb are a must. Cant lose out.
4. The day after you are bounced from the big 12 tourney, the new year begins. Prohm HAS to keep the young core intact, no transfers. If he sees the roster movement like the last couple of years, it’s over. Continuity and Tenure are formulas that win college basketball, we haven’t had that in 3 years. But has to start with a new core.
5. Conditt needs to show something, anything...that resembles a Junior in this league. Hopefully that success to end this year leads to a big offseason and solid SR year (because this team will need it)
6. Hunter and Hinson stay committed and are as advertised. If so, it brings better balance to the roles, shifts Bolton to his natural 2. Hinson becomes a bigger, better version of JCL.

If those things happen, full summer prep, fans at Hilton, Iowa at home, SEC opponent at home (hopefully) and and easier scheduled non con...then you may have something. Granted that is a lot to ask and no wiggle room, but that’s the reality CSP is in. So I am willing to see how Feb plays out, hopefully it’s the start of something.

Agree, he simply has to play the young guys, I don’t think he will do it, but for the sake of any future he has to get them a ton of minutes.

 

[cyatheart]

I find it hard to believe he isn’t gone after this season. If they end up winless in conference play (unlikely), he should be fired immediately after the last game. You can’t sell next season to fans with him as coach now, let alone if they go winless in conference play. It’s so sad how far he’s driven this program into the ground. It’s at a point where people just don’t care anymore. The great thing about basketball is that there is so many high and lows throughout a game and season that it makes the game so fun and enjoyable even when a team is bad, but Prohm has taken all the fun and joy of the game out of it and his teams aren’t even enjoyable in the slightest. They are badly coached and the talent just isn’t there to overcome bad coaching like some of his other teams. I used to sit through every game no matter how bad they were since I was a kid in the 90’s and I just have no desire to care about this team and it’s not the players fault. It’s Prohm and his horrific coaching. He has to go after this season or ISU basketball is gonna be cratered to a point where it may take 5-10 years to recover from.

I would not have said this earlier in the year. But, If we lose out or we don’t see the young guys, after that press conference and what was clearly a guy mentally gone, I think pollard has to pull the trigger. It’s just so much worse than I could have imagined right now.

 

[clone4life82]

Those were the days when earning 15+ bench minutes as a frosh mean’t beating out a Senior Tyrus Mcgee.

naz was 10th in minutes at 6.9/game his freshman year (12/13). There were a lot of others that beat him out when he was a freshman too. Granted it was a stellar team. I would say that naz and any others that people come up with for sigmapolis’ post are few and far between but he most definitely meets that criteria.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Bolton is a good player but the 7 NCAA tournament teams of the Hoiberg/Prohm eras were absolutely loaded at the guard position. He would have played but no chance of being a starter.

I don't know. Bolton is really good. He'd be even better if he had a real PG around to feed him and he could slide into a defined SG role, and if the offense had more things to worry about then just him.

He shot 40% from three last year. You know Hoiberg would have wanted to use that chess piece.

2012 = I bet he would have started over Chris Allen, but not over Scott Christopherson and Chris Babb

2013 = Korie Lucious probably breaks a tie for being a "natural" PG, but even if Bolton wouldn't start over Chris Babb and Will Clyburn, I would imagine he would play starter-like minus off the bench

2014 = Bolton would have started over Thomas and Morris, at least to start the season, but I would imagine he finishes out the year starting while freshman Monté keeps coming off the bench

2015 = Bolton is better than was sophomore Thomas, so having Bolton around would have given more of an option for another guard if BDJ was not behaving himself... but I don't think he starts

2016 = Bolton might not have started over Thomas and Nader, but he would have played starter-like minus as a sixth man behind Matt, especially once Naz went down... he's way better than Hallice Cooke... and having Bolton this year would have had a godsend considering how little depth that team had

2017 = probably stuck on the bench again, could have competed with Jackson for the "bench gunner" role

2019 = Bolton probably should have started this year over THT... Wigginton and THT both had a lot of talent but struggled with productivity and consistency, which makes Bolton better

So of the seven years...

Starter = 2012, 2014, 2019
Sixth man = 2013, 2016
Role, but limited = 2015, 2017

His role would have depended a lot on the needs of the individual rosters.

naz

Naz was stuck behind Chris Babb, Korie Lucious, Tyrus McGee, and a (pretty good) junior Bubu Palo. Any one of those four would be starters for us now and probably push Bolton on being our best player.

 

[cycloneML]

Michigan has 2-3 young assistants that could be potentially good hires

 

[Clyde4cy]

I don't know. Bolton is really good. He'd be even better if he had a real PG around to feed him and he could slide into a defined SG role, and if the offense had more things to worry about then just him.

He shot 40% from three last year. You know Hoiberg would have wanted to use that chess piece.

2012 = I bet he would have started over Chris Allen, but not over Scott Christopherson and Chris Babb

2013 = Korie Lucious probably breaks a tie for being a "natural" PG, but even if Bolton wouldn't start over Chris Babb and Will Clyburn, I would imagine he would play starter-like minus off the bench

2014 = Bolton would have started over Thomas and Morris, at least to start the season, but I would imagine he finishes out the year starting while freshman Monté keeps coming off the bench

2015 = Bolton is better than was sophomore Thomas, so having Bolton around would have given more of an option for another guard if BDJ was not behaving himself... but I don't think he starts

2016 = Bolton might not have started over Thomas and Nader, but he would have played starter-like minus as a sixth man behind Matt, especially once Naz went down... he's way better than Hallice Cooke... and having Bolton this year would have had a godsend considering how little depth that team had

2017 = probably stuck on the bench again, could have competed with Jackson for the "bench gunner" role

2019 = Bolton probably should have started this year over THT... Wigginton and THT both had a lot of talent but struggled with productivity and consistency, which makes Bolton better

So of the seven years...

Starter = 2012, 2014, 2019
Sixth man = 2013, 2016
Role, but limited = 2015, 2017

His role would have depended a lot on the needs of the individual rosters.



Naz was stuck behind Chris Babb, Korie Lucious, Tyrus McGee, and a (pretty good) junior Bubu Palo. Any one of those four would be starters for us now and probably push Bolton on being our best player.

Rashir shot 33.6% from 3 last year and is shooting 26.7% this year...

 

[flycy]

Trade for Fred

Yes his 0-5 big Ten record would make for a pretty even trade. His time is done, everyone does the things he did now with tempos pacing and transfers. Otz not looking very good either. Who you realistically going to get? Finances and lack of good candidates is why Prohm has one more year to right the ship. A defensive/rebounding guru for an assistant would help.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Rashir shot 33.6% from 3 last year and is shooting 26.7% this year...

He was 29/76 (38.2%) from three in the Big 12 last year when he had a real PG around.

He got off to a really slow start in the non-con and this year has just been bad.

But I think that 38% number is more indicative of what he would be with a PG and talent around him.

He would have fit right in with the "put a million shooters out there with Monté" era.

 

[flycy]

If Prohm is gone, I know he probably isn’t just due to money and the year being the way it is. Devries from Drake may be worth the look. Him being as young and as new as he is to Drake that would make him a cheaper hire. He would bring his 4* son with him. His 4 star son could recruit 5* teammate Omaha Beliew with him. Somehow keep Tyrese Hunter committed and keep Rasir here and we would have a reallllll good team. Front court of Beliew and Foster with Bolton, Devries, Hunter or Tre Jackson filling the guard spots.

This might be reasonable.

 

[Clonefan32]

personally, I’d rather lose guys that aren’t able to play at a big 12 level caliber and try and replace them with better talent than rather lose the talented guys to other teams due to transfer and try and replace them.

I mean, sure. But that seems to just kind of gloss over the problem of recruiting multiple guys each year who can't play at a Big 12 level. I can understand the value in cutting bait on guys that won't contribute, but it just underscores the bigger problem of bringing in multiple guys each year that aren't Big 12 basketball players. It's exactly what has led us to the position we are in of trying to band-aid together a roster every year.

 

[Cycl1]

Rashir shot 33.6% from 3 last year and is shooting 26.7% this year...

Even having the debate at all is indication that things are not great with ISU basketball.

 

[Cycl1]

Yes his 0-5 big Ten record would make for a pretty even trade. His time is done, everyone does the things he did now with tempos pacing and transfers. Otz not looking very good either. Who you realistically going to get? Finances and lack of good candidates is why Prohm has one more year to right the ship. A defensive/rebounding guru for an assistant would help.

Lol. Fred is in year 2 at a historically terrible basketball school, and as you pointed out everyone is playing the transfer game now. His 2021 recruiting class has a 5 star recruit, a 4 star, and a 3 star and is ranked 45 spots above ours nationally.

 

[NoCreativity]

Would Devries even leave Drake already? I remember a couple years ago their AD having a meltdown over Medved selling out on them that quickly. Something to rhe effect that "We only want coaches interested in Drake basketball".