This is why Prohm must go........

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megamanxzero35

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https://gleague.nba.com/news/nba-g-league-announces-player-salaries-2018-2019-season/

This is a great rundown of how much money you can make in the G-League. 35k base salary. 25% of the league averaged 40k in bonuses.

2 way players make a minimum of 77k. And depending on how much they are called up, up to 385k for the year. 50 dudes got called up for an average of 225k in bonuses just for that.

Dudes can make bank in the G-League while trying to make the NBA instead of making $0 in college trying to make the NBA.
 

CYEATHAWK

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The teams that have a higher collective of older players who have played together longer are doing quite well.

And I'd agree, if Prohm can't figure it out, he doesn't have a coaching future at Iowa State.

How the heck do you get a higher collective of older players who have played together longer if your first knee jerk reaction to adversity is to clean house?
Five years ago Dean Wade and Barry Brown came into the league. Not exactly 5 star one year wonders. K-State took their lumps for two years....then an elite eight appearance...then they became co-champs and #1 seeds in conference tourney their senior campaign. Had Wade not been injured I submit they would have had a very good chance to repeat their elite 8 of the previous season. You think for a second this "what have you done for me lately" juvenile attitude at Iowa State will allow for that 4 year process to proceed?
 

Sigmapolis

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How the heck do you get a higher collective of older players who have played together longer if your first knee jerk reaction to adversity is to clean house?
Five years ago Dean Wade and Barry Brown came into the league. Not exactly 5 star one year wonders. K-State took their lumps for two years....then an elite eight appearance...then they became co-champs and #1 seeds in conference tourney their senior campaign. Had Wade not been injured I submit they would have had a very good chance to repeat their elite 8 of the previous season. You think for a second this "what have you done for me lately" juvenile attitude at Iowa State will allow for that 4 year process to proceed?

Of course not. But it is 2020 and I want it now, mommy!
 

clonehenge

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Didn’t say you did. I’m saying it.

2 of the worst home losses in school history were Steve Prohm teams. Plus Getting spanked by Iowa and KU at Hilton are lower lows than Fred ever had.

The 25 point beat down at WV by a mediocre (and that's being kind) WV team in 2014 was a pretty low low...

Just saying ol' Freddy has some lows that rival Prohm.
 

megamanxzero35

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How the heck do you get a higher collective of older players who have played together longer if your first knee jerk reaction to adversity is to clean house?
Five years ago Dean Wade and Barry Brown came into the league. Not exactly 5 star one year wonders. K-State took their lumps for two years....then an elite eight appearance...then they became co-champs and #1 seeds in conference tourney their senior campaign. Had Wade not been injured I submit they would have had a very good chance to repeat their elite 8 of the previous season. You think for a second this "what have you done for me lately" juvenile attitude at Iowa State will allow for that 4 year process to proceed?
I'd say Prohm needs to get a handle on roster turnover. This year we added 6 new players to the roster, 2 transferred before the first game.

Year before that we added 6 new players to the roster, 2 of those 6 coming off transfer redshirts year. So didn't play the year prior.

Year before that we had 5 new guys on the roster.

Next year we will have as of right now, 4 freshman coming in and 2 probably 3 more roster spots open come this spring.

So yes that worked great for KSU. But I don't know if every year they were turnovering half their roster. I'm not advocating for Prohm to be fired this year. But almost half the team changing every year isn't the way to build a winner at Iowa State.
 

isufbcurt

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The 25 point beat down at WV by a mediocre (and that's being kind) WV team in 2014 was a pretty low low...

Just saying ol' Freddy has some lows that rival Prohm.

Didn't we also get beat by a bad TT team one of Fred's years also?

And don't forget the epic meltdown at home against Baylor because we couldn't adapt to their box and 1 and their triangle and two defenses.
 
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VeloClone

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Of course not. But it is 2020 and I want it now, mommy!
That's Daddy, thank you very much!

giphy.gif
 

clonehenge

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Didn't we also get beat by a bad TT team one of Fred's years also?

And don't forget the epic meltdown at home against Baylor because we couldn't adapt to their box and 1 and their triangle and two defenses.

Yep, the next year (Fred's last) they lost to a last place TT team...that's pretty low...

And those teams had 5 times the talent of this years team.
 

Tre4ISU

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I'd say Prohm needs to get a handle on roster turnover. This year we added 6 new players to the roster, 2 transferred before the first game.

Year before that we added 6 new players to the roster, 2 of those 6 coming off transfer redshirts year. So didn't play the year prior.

Year before that we had 5 new guys on the roster.

Next year we will have as of right now, 4 freshman coming in and 2 probably 3 more roster spots open come this spring.

So yes that worked great for KSU. But I don't know if every year they were turnovering half their roster. I'm not advocating for Prohm to be fired this year. But almost half the team changing every year isn't the way to build a winner at Iowa State.

We retain all but one guy that really matters though for next year. I think if we get on track next year we are set up for some sustainability because we likely don't have one and dones and only 2 guys are graduating and we don't know if they will even be starters. So, like we've known, next year is make or break but if it's a make, there isn't a lot to worry about beyond that.
 
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Rabbuk

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I don't understand how people can possibly believe ISU will be better next season when it is painfully obvious we're going to be much worse than this year.

That'll make it losing seasons in 3 of the last 4. Will that be good enough for everyone?
We lose an NBA point guard
 
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Cyfanisu

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It sure is too bad that the g league and transfer market is only affecting ISU and that these aren't issues every team in the country has to deal with..........

I mean, I get the point you are trying to make, but the landscape has changed for everyone. If prohm can't adapt then he doesn't have a future.
Exactly this. Prohm gets paid millions of dollars to figure this out.
 
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Sigmapolis

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We retain all but one guy that really matters though for next year. I think if we get on track next year we are set up for some sustainability because we likely don't have one and dones and only 2 guys are graduating and we don't know if they will even be starters. So, like we've known, next year is make or break but if it's a make, there isn't a lot to worry about beyond that.

I can already see what the argument will be --

Bolton, Griffin, Johnson, and Conditt will be seniors.

The vaunted incoming recruiting class of Walker, Dubar, Foster (hopefully), and Foster will have a year under their belt and will make that sophomore leap.

+ whatever we get out of the next two springs like a good sit-out for 2021-2022 and/or an immediately eligible the spring of 2021 for the upcoming season

+ whatever we have for incoming freshman in that class

"Gimme one more year, Jamie. I can turn it around with this. Let me make one more go at it with those seniors. Heck, we can do something special with them."

If it does not work at that point, then, yeah, it is not going to work at all.
 

Cyclone560

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For people talking about highs and lows:

Not sure how much everyone agrees with Kenpom as metric to evaluate teams or not, but I think its pretty good/best objective measure we have imo.

As far as highs go:
Prohm has 3 top20 Kenpom teams in his tenure. Fred had 2. Eustachy had 2. that's it far as far as Kenpom goes back (1997 is the first season in the database)

As far as lows go:
We are currently #73, two years ago we were #103.
#73 also happened to be McDermott's best year and his other three were all lower than #103 (not exactly an exciting bar to measure, that was a dark stretch but still).
Also Eustachy's team in '02 was #113. Floyd's team in '98 was #159

I think we have a bit of recency bias and also nostalgia about the past that make it seem better than was.
 

rochclone

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I didn't really say that. My point is pretty much Prohm has hit the same highs as Fred but we already hit those highs to their impact is less.

And its not really here or there, but don't act like Fred didn't flirt with disaster or have some awful games. Winning by 2 against MVSU in 2011, losing by 9 at Drake in 2011, losing at Tech in 2012 when they went 3-15, or again at Tech in 2015 when they finished last in the Big 12. If the 2011 team lost that MVSU game, it would have been a worst loss Kenpom rankings wise than the Florida A&M game.

Except they didn’t lose and that team went on to be above .500 in Big 12 play and played in the NCAA Tournament.
I’m not sure why it is that difficult to understand that the greatest “high” that CFH reached was making us a year in and year out Top 25-30 squad for 4 consecutive years. Even the first year the team was 16-16. There were same maddening individual losses by CFH’s teams but rarely did you ever see those teams get ran (beat by more than 12). It maybe happened 11 times in 5 years. Contrast that to CSP’s tenure where it has happened 21 times through 4.5 years.
 

rochclone

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How the heck do you get a higher collective of older players who have played together longer if your first knee jerk reaction to adversity is to clean house?
Five years ago Dean Wade and Barry Brown came into the league. Not exactly 5 star one year wonders. K-State took their lumps for two years....then an elite eight appearance...then they became co-champs and #1 seeds in conference tourney their senior campaign. Had Wade not been injured I submit they would have had a very good chance to repeat their elite 8 of the previous season. You think for a second this "what have you done for me lately" juvenile attitude at Iowa State will allow for that 4 year process to proceed?

Except they didn’t take their lumps for two years. Their freshmen year they were 17-16. Their sophomore year they made the NCAA Tournament and finished 21-14. If they don’t make the tournament their sophomore then Webber was going to be fired. Then they had the Elite 8 year when Virginia was upset and then last year.
Wade and Brown’s sophomore year was Year 5 for Weber. A miss that year would have meant only two NCAA appearances in 5 years and he would have been fired.

If we were going 21-14 during one of our “take our lump” years then you wouldn’t see some of the same vitriol. 13-18 or 12-19 is a long ways from 17-16 must less 21-14.
 

rochclone

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The 25 point beat down at WV by a mediocre (and that's being kind) WV team in 2014 was a pretty low low...

Just saying ol' Freddy has some lows that rival Prohm.

That WVU team from 2014 went 9-9 in the conference. Was that blowout better or worse than getting ran by 15 last in Morgantown by a team that went 4-14 in the Big 12?
 
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Jkclone15

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For people talking about highs and lows:

Not sure how much everyone agrees with Kenpom as metric to evaluate teams or not, but I think its pretty good/best objective measure we have imo.

As far as highs go:
Prohm has 3 top20 Kenpom teams in his tenure. Fred had 2. Eustachy had 2. that's it far as far as Kenpom goes back (1997 is the first season in the database)

As far as lows go:
We are currently #73, two years ago we were #103.
#73 also happened to be McDermott's best year and his other three were all lower than #103 (not exactly an exciting bar to measure, that was a dark stretch but still).
Also Eustachy's team in '02 was #113. Floyd's team in '98 was #159

I think we have a bit of recency bias and also nostalgia about the past that make it seem better than was.

Thank you. That actually does make me feel better. Still would love it if they could close one of these close games.