Yeah, I figured it was understood that typical fan complaints on message boards after losses are a given for any team in any sport with any coach. That’s a baseline assumption. I don’t think that constitutes some exceptional level of coaching criticism that is meaningful to this discussion.
Steve Prohm
- Thread starter tyler24
- Start date
Yeah, I figured it was understood that typical fan complaints on message boards after losses are a given for any team in any sport with any coach. That’s a baseline assumption. I don’t think that constitutes some exceptional level of coaching criticism that is meaningful to this discussion.
Fred's criticisms off the top of my head, in good times, and in bad:
-line up rotation
-defense/rebounding
-heroball/lack of movement
-not working the refs
-possible loss of the locker room in 2015
-time out usage/timing
IIRC this board was in full raging meltdown mode the first half of that huge come back vs. OU in 2015, that amazing 'magic' that he reportedly ignited by throwing out the playbook and letting the team figure it out.
Do you watch any basketball games besides ISU? Almost every coach consults with his assistant coaches like Prohm does before they address their team.
There are plenty of things to rag on him about but that one is absurd.
Ah, the days when all we had to complain about was an amazing comeback victory over a Top 20 Oklahoma squad. Those were truly dark times.
Ah, having a truly blinded view of a few years of basketball that weren't as good as many remember, and weren't likely going to get better since Fred didn't emphasize defense and we get shown basically every year that good defense makes actual deep runs in the tournament.
Last night either the players were being talked to by an assistant or standing around on the court for most of the time outs. Sorry to disagree and I know I’m not a expert, but that is what I saw
And what I saw was
1. Coaches consult with each other
2. Prohm talks to the team in the huddle
3. Huddle breaks and a assistant talks to guys on court
4. 5 guys on court huddle and talk.
I really don't understand the criticism here. Like I said out of all the things to criticize this seems a weird one to pick.
Yeah I think that's pretty much protocol at most places.
Fans still arguing over how good of a coach Hoiberg was pretty much says it all about the current state of the program under Prohm. Personally I loved those years and think we were a couple bad injury breaks (Niang and Babb) away from deep tournament runs two of those years. Hopefully the future can look bright for cyclone hoops again at some point.
You are right. I Guess I imagined all those wins and all the fun and excitement. Clearly it wasn’t good because fans complained on the message board after losses or close wins. And your hypothetical scenario you made up about how it was going to get worse (even though the best two teams were the last two and he left behind a loaded roster)? That was a compelling argument. You’ve convinced me.
Thankfully those days are over. Our program is in a way better place now.
Never said it was going to get worse. You're making **** up. But assuming a defensive optional approach is going to get much further than a Sweet 16 doesn't make much sense.
What'd you think of Tim Floyd losing double digit games his first year with Fred's senior class, also a 'loaded' roster by ISU standards?
I mean, that 'loaded' roster that CSP got was realistically a top 15ish one and finished accordingly.
Also, end of game strategy. At least two losses directly associated to the foul/ don't foul when up 3. KU with McLemore, and one of the Texas games in austin.
People bashed me for it, but it drove me crazy when his team would have a decent, but not necessarily safe lead with about a minute left, and they'd throw it up as soon as there was a chance to shoot, which would lead to a long rebound and quick bucket for the opponent.
Don't need some sort of 4 corner stall ball, but work it around a bit and look for a safe shot while making them play some defense.
He was pretty good at the 2 for 1 thing but no lead felt safe, haha.
You put “loaded roster” in quotes - you disagree with that characterization? I’m not sure how you could describe a roster with 5 NBA players differently.
Regardless - obviously I imagined all those wins and the excitement around the program. I certainly thought I remember watching us win the Big 12 tourney in person the last two years. I could also swear both those teams were 3 seeds. My memory tells me that back to back 3 seeds and a program that went to the tourney 6 straight years is one of the highlights in our programs history. But as you said, I must be misremembering and those teams were much worse. Apparently because you and some other fans complained a lot on the message board. Yeah, that sounds like solid reasoning.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
Agreed. This is something that every team and coaching staff does.
They got beat by Florida A&M. Nothing else needs to be said.
I hate it but the reality is, even if Prohm brings in great recruiting classes, we still know what we're getting. I get giving a guy time and not having a knee jerk reaction but here really isn't anything else to figure out about the guy. We know he can recruit but you can argue he underachieved every season here, so just having the best guys still puts a 2nd round kind of cap on what he can do here.
Fred had struggles early on here but figured a lot of it out, he just hadn't coached much. Prohm has the experience, he just doesn't seem to have the chops. The sad thing is, we really can't fire him without basically starting all over again, thanks to the bare cupboard he'd be leaving the next guy, that's even if there were no defections. No tourney this year would really get people talking about job security on the recruiting trail, the writing is on the wall, who would blame a recruit for having second thoughts when the coach you committed to is a dead man walking.
Fred had struggles early on here but figured a lot of it out, he just hadn't coached much. Prohm has the experience, he just doesn't seem to have the chops. The sad thing is, we really can't fire him without basically starting all over again, thanks to the bare cupboard he'd be leaving the next guy, that's even if there were no defections. No tourney this year would really get people talking about job security on the recruiting trail, the writing is on the wall, who would blame a recruit for having second thoughts when the coach you committed to is a dead man walking.
Again, you're making **** up. I have not said you're misremebering anything or even said those years weren't great. They were just more deficient than the 'Forever Fred' crowd wanted to see it. You can disagree and have a discussion, but stop ****ing lying.
Don't disagree with the roster being 'loaded' necessarily, but it wasn't like it was a roster with 5 lottery picks or something. They were 'loaded' with returning players from a decent team from other years that did some great things for both Fred and CSP.
I'm not pining for fred by any means (and i dont think there's any chance he's coming back) but if someone gave me a button that would instantly give us fred instead of steve with no worries about buyouts etc i think you'd be dumb not to press that button at this point. If nothing else it would avoid the couple years of apathy we are about to endure before steve gets fired, and people would have hope for awhile, even if fred ultimately failed as well.
