Iowa is.. and we're one of the worst 3pt shooting teams and guess what we tried to do all night long? lol
This is why Prohm must go........
- Thread starter ohly2311
- Start date
Guess I'm just a glass-half-full guy. But you go on ahead and keep beating yourself up about our team's shortcomings.
You mean a Steve Prohm coached team actually beat a Chris Beard coached team?
I call BS. I've read that Beard is the best coach in the world and has never lost a game.
He sure didn't lose on his home court to the crappy Iowa State team we had last year.
My argument wasn't about him getting more minutes. In fact, I have no problems that he was coming off the bench.
I am saying that he wasn't put in situations to be successful when he was on the court. He didn't need to be THE point guard. But let the guy handle the ball every now and then so he can create his own offense and light a spark under himself. The dude was too talented to be sitting on the 3pt line. I guarantee most, if not all, of the coaches in the B12 could have gotten more production out of Lindell than our staff was able to.
Lindell deserves some blame too, of course. But Prohm and staff need to be held accountable.
Why does starting/not make such a difference? Minutes are more important. Your five most important players are not always your five starters.
Career ATR for a few notable guys...
---
Morris -- 768/165 = 4.65
Weiler-Babb -- 358/138 = 2.60
Haliburton -- 204/54 = 3.78
Wigginton -- 141/141 = 1.00
One. ONE. ONE!!! Tyrese has more career assists than him by a wide margin after 1.25 seasons. Wigginton almost had as many turnovers as Morris did in four years playing 38+ minutes per night in only two seasons!
Which one(s) should have been running PG again?
Wigginton definitely had a few sets where he initiated the offense, but when you clearly do not have true PG skills, his best role was as a SG/shooter, not a primary ball-handler the team was at its best last year with Nick running the show.
There are things to criticize about Prohm as a coach, but the "he was unfair to Wigginton and should have played him more/played him at PG" one is just bizarre to me. The case is so overwhelming against it that I conclude that you all are either (1.) stupid and know nothing about basketball or (2.) you're grasping for whatever straw you can find, and this just seems like an obvious one yet it falls apart under scrutiny.
Sigmapolis, keep doing you. Putting all these people in their place with your analytics is so much fun to watch.
There's a reason people hated me in the Cave.
Having one's silly beliefs shot down by robust evidence is never fun.
To me your points kind of play in to the criticism of Prohm or at least what I think his biggest issue is. You and I both know the bolded is true, Steve Prohm obviously knows its true but he didn't do anything different in those first five minutes than he did when he had teams with the firepower to play from behind. Essentially, he coaches every team the same every game, regardless of their strengths. He just waits for shot to start falling, that's going to be a big ask with this roster. He's going to have to adjust from the get go and coach the guys to attack in order to collapse the defense instead of hoping we hit shots to stretch them out and attack the gaps.
The only other excuse for the Iowa game was that he also was shell shocked and the moment was too much for him. Honestly, based on his demeanor on the sidelines the last 2 Iowa games, I think that may be true. He kind of just paced with that weird grimace on his face. I think its also possible he doesn't understand how big a deal the game is to in state kids. Hopefully the last two smacks in the mouth have educated him.
The good news is, there is a lot of season left, the Big 12 doesn't look as intimidating as it has in the past and while it's daunting, a trip to a top 10/15ish type of team left in the non con that would make a lot of people forget about our early struggles. Let's hope they get it figured out.
I know the offense is limited but I see a lot of games starting out 16-4ish but the team that's down doesn't let that decide the game
I’ve seen plenty of great coaches lose in the first round. And comparing teams by tournament seeds or power 5 status is pretty meaningless.
I never said there were no legitimate criticisms of Prohm to be had -- and I know you know that, and the above is a nuanced, fair critique of the program.
What I do not get is why our guys keep shooting at this point. After this many games, this is beyond a fluke. This is what we are. We need to adjust to it.
Prohm should be pounding them in practice --
No threes unless it is a practice shot. You need to be wide open. If not, bench.
Attack the basket. Haliburton/big man PnR is the core of the offense.
Bolton, attack the rim. Attack attack attack.
Nixon, just keep the ball moving, but if it isn't wide open or a layup, you aren't taking it.
If that is not working, try to get Jake or Conditt a touch on the block.
Let them go to work or pass out of it to a cutter.
Stop standing there waiting for the ball to take a three you will not make.
As JS said in their group chat, "For a team that can't shoot, I have never seen a team that likes shooting the ball as much as this one." If they get that mentality out of their heads, our offense might be pretty good. Ugly, but good.
I agree with you generally the program needs to put more emphasis on the Iowa game. We had a great opportunity to kick Iowa when it was down after the Foster coup. Nope. We cannot let Fran get program momentum going again.
Unfortunately, that is Prohm's offense. It isn't going to change.
Bennett had won at the p5 level prior to his UVA job, rebuilding Wazzu from a sub .500 team to a team that won 25+ games his first 3 seasons. Jay Wright had taken Hofstra to the 2nd round and improved Nova almost instantly. Both had already proven they could rebuild a struggling program into a winner. Prohm had very little success prior to ISU and walked in to a program that was as strong as it had ever been. No comparison at all between these guys or Chris Beard to Prohm really. He's already had more time, resources and inherited a better program than any of these coaches and hasn't proven he can take the next step.
I like the guy, I hope he figures it out but there really isn't much evidence he should be listed with guys like Bennett and Wright.
Career ATR for a few notable guys...
---
Morris -- 768/165 = 4.65
Weiler-Babb -- 358/138 = 2.60
Haliburton -- 204/54 = 3.78
Wigginton -- 141/141 = 1.00
One. ONE. ONE!!! Tyrese has more career assists than him by a wide margin after 1.25 seasons. Wigginton almost had as many turnovers as Morris did in four years playing 38+ minutes per night in only two seasons!
Which one(s) should have been running PG again?
Wigginton definitely had a few sets where he initiated the offense, but when you clearly do not have true PG skills, his best role was as a SG/shooter, not a primary ball-handler the team was at its best last year with Nick running the show.
There are things to criticize about Prohm as a coach, but the "he was unfair to Wigginton and should have played him more/played him at PG" one is just bizarre to me. The case is so overwhelming against it that I conclude that you all are either (1.) stupid and know nothing about basketball or (2.) you're grasping for whatever straw you can find, and this just seems like an obvious one yet it falls apart under scrutiny.[/QUOTE]
Learn to read before responding. "I have no problems that he was coming off the bench." That is my exact quote. I also said I had no problems with the minutes he was getting.
Are you happy with how last season went? Did the season go as you had hoped/expected? Because I know that I was disappointed. Anybody who knows basketball will tell you that we under performed last season and never really looked like a complete team. Who does the responsibility fall on? The coaches. Plain and simple, they weren't able to figure things out.
Wigginton was a special talent, especially at the college level, who looked average for more games than not last season. That is a problem. If you wanna sit back and praise an underwhelming season while one of the B12's best players looked marginal at best, you go right ahead. But I could never.
---
Morris -- 768/165 = 4.65
Weiler-Babb -- 358/138 = 2.60
Haliburton -- 204/54 = 3.78
Wigginton -- 141/141 = 1.00
One. ONE. ONE!!! Tyrese has more career assists than him by a wide margin after 1.25 seasons. Wigginton almost had as many turnovers as Morris did in four years playing 38+ minutes per night in only two seasons!
Which one(s) should have been running PG again?
Wigginton definitely had a few sets where he initiated the offense, but when you clearly do not have true PG skills, his best role was as a SG/shooter, not a primary ball-handler the team was at its best last year with Nick running the show.
There are things to criticize about Prohm as a coach, but the "he was unfair to Wigginton and should have played him more/played him at PG" one is just bizarre to me. The case is so overwhelming against it that I conclude that you all are either (1.) stupid and know nothing about basketball or (2.) you're grasping for whatever straw you can find, and this just seems like an obvious one yet it falls apart under scrutiny.[/QUOTE]
Learn to read before responding. "I have no problems that he was coming off the bench." That is my exact quote. I also said I had no problems with the minutes he was getting.
Are you happy with how last season went? Did the season go as you had hoped/expected? Because I know that I was disappointed. Anybody who knows basketball will tell you that we under performed last season and never really looked like a complete team. Who does the responsibility fall on? The coaches. Plain and simple, they weren't able to figure things out.
Wigginton was a special talent, especially at the college level, who looked average for more games than not last season. That is a problem. If you wanna sit back and praise an underwhelming season while one of the B12's best players looked marginal at best, you go right ahead. But I could never.
Pre-season predictions for ISU last year were 6th in the conference. They finished 5th. So yes, it went as expected. If you were dissapointed, that's a you problem. Were they frustrating to watch at times? Absolutley. Doesn't mean they were a dissapointment.
If Wigginton was such a special talent, he wouldnt have looked average for more games than not.
Those predictions didn't know how good THT, Shayok, Jacobson and Haliburton would be. Once you could see how talented they were, the conference season was definitely underachieving.
