This is why Prohm must go........

[WastedTalent]

Hypothetically, if you were in Prohm's spot, and 5 minutes before tip off against Ohio St, someone from the future told you:
-Jacobsen would be ineffective on both ends
-THT was going to be liability on defense, turnover prone on offense, and not able to make a shot
-Lard would play well, but would have foul trouble in the first half
-Refs would allow extra physicality, and miss some calls going against you late in the game
-Shayok would shoot well
-Wigginton would play well

Personally, I would start Wigginton for THT, Lard for Jacobsen, and play Conditt more. Use THT off the bench for a change of pace, but never let him make two mistakes in a row.

Strategy wise, I guess I would have them dribble drive more, and force the refs to call fouls, (although I guess they didn't in reality) or kick out for more 3s (but again, in reality, only shayok was making them.)

Point is, even knowing the future, Prohm would have been pretty handcuffed. Again, this is for only a one game scenario. There's obviously multiple things that could be changed throughout the season. Prohm would say the same.

 

[Tre4ISU]

Hypothetically, if you were in Prohm's spot, and 5 minutes before tip off against Ohio St, someone from the future told you:
-Jacobsen would be ineffective on both ends
-THT was going to be liability on defense, turnover prone on offense, and not able to make a shot
-Lard would be play well, but would have foul trouble in the first half
-Refs would allow extra physicality, and miss some calls going against you late in the game
-Shayok would shoot well
-Wigginton would play well

Personally, I would start Wigginton for THT, Lard for Jacobsen, and play Conditt more. Use THT off the bench for a change of pace, but never let him make two mistakes in a row.

Strategy wise, I guess I would have them dribble drive more, and force the refs to call fouls, (although I guess they didn't in reality) or kick out for more 3s (but again, in reality only shayok was making them.)

Point is, even knowing the future Prohm would have been pretty handcuffed. Again, this is for only a one game scenario. There's obviously multiple things that could be changed throughout the season. Prohm would say the same.

If we don't shoot well and Wesson is officiated like he was, we aren't winning. If they are going to allow him to be as physical as he was all over the court, especially in screening and rebounding, we are ****** unless we shoot well. It is what it is and there just isn't a whole lot you can do about either one of those things. No one is trying to miss shots and we don't have anyone (nor does 99% of teams) who isn't going to be effective with that much physicality from that big of a guy. That's where it would have been great to have an Ejim or Hogue kind of guy to go small but not lose your only effective rebounding. We don't have that guy and that's what killed us in 75% of the games we lost. There is no way to get away from the Wesson matchup because no one can take advantage of him on offense.

 

[Cyclone560]

First of all, Prohm coached this team terribly all year long.

People got all excited because we won the Big 12 Tourney but we should have won the Big 12 Tourney. (We had the best roster in the Big 12)

Finishing 9-9 in conference play was really embarrassing as the Clones clearly should have won the league.

Elite teams play two big men....it's just the way it is.....look at KU, UK, UNC, Duke, etc.......

Why he didn't start a line-up of Wigginton, Shayok, Horton-Tucker, Lard, and Jacobsen is ridiculous.....people wondering why we kept getting out-rebounded and then you see four guards out there and it's not real tough.....rotating Weiler-Babb and Haliburton with the three other guards would have worked fine but instead he put the team in a bad situation at all times with NEVER having a second big on the floor.....that is a joke.

Sure, you can go to four guards at times but when you're in a big boys league you have to compete at a big boy level.....Prohm doesn't do that.

Then we once again we got to watch "stand and watch basketball" tonight as he allowed them to spend much of the first half (and many games during the regular season) with four guys on the perimeter just standing and then shooting a three-pointer with only ONE guy underneath to rebound.....we were extremely easy to to guard because our coaching was terrible....we have GREAT players that can drive to the basket in Shayok, Horton-Tucker, and Wigginton who could have been drawing fouls all first half, drawing defense for a miss and easy offensive rebound, or creating wide-open three's but no.....Steve allowed them to stand on the perimeter and shoot NBA three's......live by it and die by it.........

Then let's talk about our defense........Ohio State has a completely mediocre team without Wesson (they lost by 19 without him against Northwestern).....he's clearly their only big-time player......a good coach would double team him every time he touched it and would have forced the rest of the OSU team to beat us......not Steve.....that was just too logical of a thing to do......so he just let Wesson toy with our bigs for most of the game.......it's easy stuff that he just decided not to do.......

If people think this is just reactionary to a tough tourney loss, you don't understand the game......he's the head coach who allowed his team to have problems that led to a 9-9 Big 12 record which is downright embarrassing and now he just led us to a horrific loss to a terrible Ohio State team......if you think he's the guy to lead this program to big-time tourney runs you are wrong.......in fact he took over a program that was loaded with talent and he went to the Sweet 16 with Fred's team......then went to the round of 32, then no tourney, then now we are out in the round of 64.........it's been downhill and in four years he has a 35-37 record in Big 12 league play......that's brutal......ISU has been to the tourney 7 of 8 years but if they want to become an elite program which I believe they can become, they need a new leader.....it's real simple.

"Elite teams play two big men" I strongly disagree. KU went to the final four last year playing four guards around Doke. Villanova won two national titles playing four guard line ups. The game is shifting to be more wing/guard oriented. Additionally, I'm not sure what you saw from Cam Lard this season to make you think he would be a reliable option, he mostly struggled all year besides having a great game in the tournament. I wouldn't have been opposed to testing a two big man line up, but I'm not optimistic it would have been a good options for this team.

Regarding offense, yes they were stagnant at times, but they still finished top10 in KenPom in offensive efficiency. I think we are so used to see at times great ball movement that it makes the struggles stick out that much more at times.

Regarding the defense in the tournament, I actually thought we played good defense, the problem was offense. OSU shot 39.7% from the field and 25% from 3 that's usually good enough to get it done so I disagree with your defensive points from that game. I don't think doubling Wesson is the easy solution you make it out to be. If we doubled Wesson we likely give up more open 3s. Instead we tried to defend him and while he got some easy buckets, we defended the 3 well and for the most part prevented anyone else from getting good clean looks. I can't say doubling wouldn't have been more effective, it might have been, but its not the no brainer answer with no downside that you make it sound like. And again, despite giving up some frustrating easy buckets to Wesson, as a whole I thought we still defended well enough to win the game, just needed to be better on offense which is fair to criticize.

Finally, regarding Big12 record, that is highly skewed based on last season. Last season was a tough spot given roster construction that very likely would have had similar results no matter who the coach was, Fred, Steve, or anyone else. The consistency of this program has been up there among the best in the nation and I understand wanting more, but making 7 NCAA tournaments in 8 years is a tough task and to do it as predominantly higher seeds is even more impressive.

Prohm definitely has flaws, but I think he's done a great job and things still look bright in the future. He's done a great job recruiting and evaluating talent such as getting under-the-radar guys like Haliburton and Conditt and being early to offer and land Zion Griffin who eventually had a Kansas offer and I am optimistic will be really good in the next couple of years. I really think taking the state of the current program for granted is a mistake. I get not loving Prohm, but I don't get the hate and I'm afraid most alternatives are significantly worse.

Anyways that's my two cents. This post bothered me a lot. I think its reactionary and short-sighted. Iowa State is currently enjoying a stretch of success and consistency that most programs in the country would love to claim as their own. Personally I love Prohm as the head of the program and think he's been getting a really unfair shake lately for what has been an overall successful stretch as head coach.

 

[DurangoCy]

Hypothetically, if you were in Prohm's spot, and 5 minutes before tip off against Ohio St, someone from the future told you:
-Jacobsen would be ineffective on both ends
-THT was going to be liability on defense, turnover prone on offense, and not able to make a shot
-Lard would play well, but would have foul trouble in the first half
-Refs would allow extra physicality, and miss some calls going against you late in the game
-Shayok would shoot well
-Wigginton would play well

Personally, I would start Wigginton for THT, Lard for Jacobsen, and play Conditt more. Use THT off the bench for a change of pace, but never let him make two mistakes in a row.

Strategy wise, I guess I would have them dribble drive more, and force the refs to call fouls, (although I guess they didn't in reality) or kick out for more 3s (but again, in reality, only shayok was making them.)

Point is, even knowing the future, Prohm would have been pretty handcuffed. Again, this is for only a one game scenario. There's obviously multiple things that could be changed throughout the season. Prohm would say the same.

Don't forget NWB played one of his worst games of the year too.

 

[DurangoCy]

"Elite teams play two big men" I strongly disagree. KU went to the final four last year playing four guards around Doke. Villanova won two national titles playing four guard line ups. The game is shifting to be more wing/guard oriented. Additionally, I'm not sure what you saw from Cam Lard this season to make you think he would be a reliable option, he mostly struggled all year besides having a great game in the tournament. I wouldn't have been opposed to testing a two big man line up, but I'm not optimistic it would have been a good options for this team.

Regarding offense, yes they were stagnant at times, but they still finished top10 in KenPom in offensive efficiency. I think we are so used to see at times great ball movement that it makes the struggles stick out that much more at times.

Regarding the defense in the tournament, I actually thought we played good defense, the problem was offense. OSU shot 39.7% from the field and 25% from 3 that's usually good enough to get it done so I disagree with your defensive points from that game. I don't think doubling Wesson is the easy solution you make it out to be. If we doubled Wesson we likely give up more open 3s. Instead we tried to defend him and while he got some easy buckets, we defended the 3 well and for the most part prevented anyone else from getting good clean looks. I can't say doubling wouldn't have been more effective, it might have been, but its not the no brainer answer with no downside that you make it sound like. And again, despite giving up some frustrating easy buckets to Wesson, as a whole I thought we still defended well enough to win the game, just needed to be better on offense which is fair to criticize.

Finally, regarding Big12 record, that is highly skewed based on last season. Last season was a tough spot given roster construction that very likely would have had similar results no matter who the coach was, Fred, Steve, or anyone else. The consistency of this program has been up there among the best in the nation and I understand wanting more, but making 7 NCAA tournaments in 8 years is a tough task and to do it as predominantly higher seeds is even more impressive.

Prohm definitely has flaws, but I think he's done a great job and things still look bright in the future. He's done a great job recruiting and evaluating talent such as getting under-the-radar guys like Haliburton and Conditt and being early to offer and land Zion Griffin who eventually had a Kansas offer and I am optimistic will be really good in the next couple of years. I really think taking the state of the current program for granted is a mistake. I get not loving Prohm, but I don't get the hate and I'm afraid most alternatives are significantly worse.

Anyways that's my two cents. This post bothered me a lot. I think its reactionary and short-sighted. Iowa State is currently enjoying a stretch of success and consistency that most programs in the country would love to claim as their own. Personally I love Prohm as the head of the program and think he's been getting a really unfair shake lately for what has been an overall successful stretch as head coach.

I love that this trash thread is still going, so I'm going to help too. You're post is great.

Don't forget that KU started David McCormack and Lawson vs. us in the B1G Championship and then McCormack played a grand total of 8 minutes, because our small ball lineup ran them right the hell out of the gym. Unfortunately the OP was too upset to remember games like that where 4 out - 1 in is an abosoltute destroyer of teams with two bigs that are slow footed defenders and our guards are causing havoc.

This year was a success on all accounts in my opinion. I wished we could've avoided the conference swoon and made it further in the NCAA, but I'm still looking forward to watchin the young core we have.

 

[Cyched]

I love that this trash thread is still going, so I'm going to help too. You're post is great.

Don't forget that KU started David McCormack and Lawson vs. us in the B1G Championship and then McCormack played a grand total of 8 minutes, because our small ball lineup ran them right the hell out of the gym. Unfortunately the OP was too upset to remember games like that where 4 out - 1 in is an abosoltute destroyer of teams with two bigs that are slow footed defenders and our guards are causing havoc.

This year was a success on all accounts in my opinion. I wished we could've avoided the conference swoon and made it further in the NCAA, but I'm still looking forward to watchin the young core we have.

Same. I think this is getting lost in the poo-slinging. It was a bumpy year with some left to be desired, but 23 wins, a conference tournament championship and NCAA appearance is a good first year for this freshman class. Excited to see how these guys develop.

 

[Jdk]

This thread is getting worn out

 

[Gunnerclone]

Same. I think this is getting lost in the poo-slinging. It was a bumpy year with some left to be desired, but 23 wins, a conference tournament championship and NCAA appearance is a good first year for this freshman class. Excited to see how these guys develop.

Amazing to think that 6 years ago we had four less banners flying in Hilton.

 

[nfrine]

This thread is getting worn out

Jdk...for a new member to CF you seem a hell of a lot smarter than a lot of the posters here. Hang in there and learn to ignore the dumb stuff.

 

[cped]

Please close thread. It doesn't matter which side of the fence you are on, Steve Prohm is the mens head basketball coach at Iowa State for the foreseeable future.

 

[Mtowncyclone13]

Well this thread is funny

 

[UnCytely]

Can't find that thread we usually bump to blow steam after a bad loss, so I will bump this one instead.

 

[DurangoCy]

Can't find that thread we usually bump to blow steam after a bad loss, so I will bump this one instead.

Take a break from the internets.

 

[UnCytely]

Take a break from the internets.

Why does Steve Prohm have so many games in which we have to do that? HOME GAMES no less!

 

[DurangoCy]

Why does Steve Prohm have so many games in which we have to do that? HOME GAMES no less!

Because his 4 best guards from last year graduated or left early. This isn't hard.

 

[UnCytely]

Because his 4 best guards from last year graduated or left early. This isn't hard.

Under McDermott, players leave and we blame the coach. Under Prohm, players leave and we blame the players.

 

[Rabbuk]

Because his 4 best guards from last year graduated or left early. This isn't hard.

These are all his guys

 

[harimad]

Can't find that thread we usually bump to blow steam after a bad loss, so I will bump this one instead.

You are the worst poster on this site. By far.

 

[twojman]

This is the first time I've been in the Prohm can't get it done camp. This whole season has been awful, beyond awful. This is just bad basketball and a bad team.

 

[Cyclones423]

Because his 4 best guards from last year graduated or left early. This isn't hard.

And the team underperformed with all that talent. Had a lazy effort in the Iowa game that year too. Prohm also admitted to mismanaging that roster by not starting Wigginton and now he's doing it again with Conditt.