Will Prohm ever win a championship?

[Sigmapolis]

We''ll just have to disagree with this one, and is one of the reasons Prohm got on my bad side right away. There is no way that team should have finished 10-8 and one and done in the Big 12 tourney that year.

I don't remember exactly, but I think we were ranked in the Top 10 preseason. I just remember being extremely disappointed the way that season played out. We would beat a #1 at home, then proceed to lose 2 or 3 games in a row a number of times. There is no way that was a 5th place talented team we had that year.

2016-2017 I thought we played up to our potential. I'll give Prohm alot of credit for putting Solomon in the lineup, that was a 4 guard team that was getting destroyed in the paint similiar to this years team, but Young provided a huge lift and we salvaged the season. I think it was more the 4 seniors refusing to go out in the NIT, but I'll give Prohm credit for that year.

Last year was a complete dumpster fire, I've tried to erase that from my memory.

That team scored like crazy but sucked on defense, could play very well but also down to its level of competition with some WTF games, and flamed out on the earlier side in the NCAA tournament. Yes, Steve Prohm was its head coach, but that team basically played like and acted like and had the outcome of the Hoiberg teams before it in every sense of the term.

It was a good basketball team, but the voters were flatly wrong in anointing it as a Top 5 or even a Top 10 team in the preseason given some of the problems with the roster.

 

[4theCYcle]

But are they? I've been critical and pointed out what I see as CSP shortcomings. But I am not calling for him to be fired at all. I think most people criticizing him are in the same vein, just some with more spleen than others. Sometimes a LOT more spleen...

Is anyone seriously calling for him to be fired? Or for Fred to be re-hired? I keep seeing that accusation all the time, but don't recall anyone saying it explicitly.

Maybe we should have a thread "Who wants CSP fired" and then they can all raise their hands.

Does it even have to be a thread? I've seen it plenty on twitter and facebook.

 

[Cat Stevens]

I'm sure they're accepting new applicants if you'd like to try and understand my post

Sick burn.

Yo

 

[NoCreativity]

Preseason rankings from media voters (or coaches polls) are meaningless. ISU actually finished the season about where they were projected in the preseason analytic-based ratings(#19 to #20). In 2015-16, ISU made it to a Sweet 16 and lost to a really good UVA team. Do not forget all of the chemistry issues that Prohm was working through during the conference portion of his 1st season. That team was also lacking in meaningful depth and post defense.

Also, the 2016-17 team was never even close to the NIT, but memories are unique to the individual. That ISU team overachieved where they started preseason at #26 and finished at #17.

Some supposed ISU fans just need to do a better job at managing realistic expectations.

I'll give you we were lacking depth, but we have depth this year and he doesn't use it, what makes you think we would have went 8 or 9 deep that year if we even had the option?

Also, that 16-17 team was most certainly capable of missing the tourney that year, they were 13-8, staring at 13-9 heading to Lawrence until Solomon finally got playing time and Jackson saved their season by nailing that dagger.

They may have still been a play-in game or an 11 seed type of team if they continued on that pace and got bounced right away in the Big 12 tourney. Lets not pretend nobody was worried on 1-31 of that year.

 

[jsb]

We''ll just have to disagree with this one, and is one of the reasons Prohm got on my bad side right away. There is no way that team should have finished 10-8 and one and done in the Big 12 tourney that year.

I don't remember exactly, but I think we were ranked in the Top 10 preseason. I just remember being extremely disappointed the way that season played out. We would beat a #1 at home, then proceed to lose 2 or 3 games in a row a number of times. There is no way that was a 5th place talented team we had that year.

2016-2017 I thought we played up to our potential. I'll give Prohm alot of credit for putting Solomon in the lineup, that was a 4 guard team that was getting destroyed in the paint similiar to this years team, but Young provided a huge lift and we salvaged the season. I think it was more the 4 seniors refusing to go out in the NIT, but I'll give Prohm credit for that year.

Last year was a complete dumpster fire, I've tried to erase that from my memory.

It’s silly that you think that there shouldn’t have been any learning curve going from one coach to another. I also think you’d do well to remember that we lost Naz that year. That was a significant loss. Also I’m not sure why you thought that team should have been significantly better than the year before.

 

[NoCreativity]

That team scored like crazy but sucked on defense, could play very well but also down to its level of competition with some WTF games, and flamed out on the earlier side in the NCAA tournament. Yes, Steve Prohm was its head coach, but that team basically played like and acted like and had the outcome of the Hoiberg teams before it in every sense of the term.

It was a good basketball team, but the voters were flatly wrong in anointing it as a Top 5 or even a Top 10 team in the preseason given some of the problems with the roster.

It didn't act like a Hoiberg team because that team finished 10-8, if it were a typical Hoiberg team it would have finished at least 11-7 or 12-6. Im sorry, but 5th place that year and not even winning a game in the Big 12 tourney was unacceptable. That first year is one of the reasons I still have alot of animosity towards Fred leaving and Prohm being hired.

Had we continued where we left off with those same players I think I would feel differently about Prohm. You could tell right away the program had taken a step back.

 

[Dingus]

Still haven’t stopped watching, huh? You were sitting this one out a while ago.

Huh? I think you have me confused with someone else. Except for that last post, all I’ve said is that I like Prohm but want to see our PnR defense improve.

 

[NoCreativity]

It’s silly that you think that there shouldn’t have been any learning curve going from one coach to another. I also think you’d do well to remember that we lost Naz that year. That was a significant loss. Also I’m not sure why you thought that team should have been significantly better than the year before.

Lol, its called core players getting better and returning from the previous year. Isn't that what most preseason predictions are based on?

 

[FinalFourCy]

Preseason rankings from media voters (or coaches polls) are meaningless.

Some supposed ISU fans just need to do a better job at managing realistic expectations.

Agree, but that cuts both ways, too. It’s okay to view 4th or 5th a disappointment even though preseason guesses had lower. And past seasons from long ago can be tough to let go, but a better job of managing realistic expectations also means being comfortable with some seasons being a disappointment regardless of well it looks compared to seasons from previous decades.

 

[EarthIsMan]

I'll give you we were lacking depth, but we have depth this year and he doesn't use it, what makes you think we would have went 8 or 9 deep that year if we even had the option?

Also, that 16-17 team was most certainly capable of missing the tourney that year, they were 13-8, staring at 13-9 heading to Lawrence until Solomon finally got playing time and Jackson saved their season by nailing that dagger.

They may have still been a play-in game or an 11 seed type of team if they continued on that pace and got bounced right away in the Big 12 tourney. Lets not pretend nobody was worried on 1-31 of that year.

One could reasonably quibble over those points, but I was responding more to your statement:

We''ll just have to disagree with this one, and is one of the reasons Prohm got on my bad side right away.

Your attempt at providing support for the statement above seemed more like evidence that you lack context and perspective on the first 2 seasons under Prohm.

 

[jsb]

It didn't act like a Hoiberg team because that team finished 10-8, if it were a typical Hoiberg team it would have finished at least 11-7 or 12-6. Im sorry, but 5th place that year and not even winning a game in the Big 12 tourney was unacceptable. That first year is one of the reasons I still have alot of animosity towards Fred leaving and Prohm being hired.

Had we continued where we left off with those same players I think I would feel differently about Prohm. You could tell right away the program had taken a step back.

Do you don’t think losing naz had anything to do with anything?

And you seriously decided that prohm was a garbage coach because he won 10 conference games instead of 11?

You fit right in with your other idiot Kansas State and Iowa fans.

 

[NoCreativity]

I can't even believe this thread is still going strong. We have an extremely dangerous Oklahoma team coming in tonight who has their backs up against the tournament wall. I can't even imagine the meltdown that will ensue if we lose tonight.

 

[IASTATE07]

I can't even believe this thread is still going strong. We have an extremely dangerous Oklahoma team coming in tonight who has their backs up against the tournament wall. I can't even imagine the meltdown that will ensue if we lose tonight.

Do we as fans need to prepare for tonight? What should I be doing?

 

[ISUChippewa]

We''ll just have to disagree with this one, and is one of the reasons Prohm got on my bad side right away. There is no way that team should have finished 10-8 and one and done in the Big 12 tourney that year.

I don't remember exactly, but I think we were ranked in the Top 10 preseason. I just remember being extremely disappointed the way that season played out. We would beat a #1 at home, then proceed to lose 2 or 3 games in a row a number of times. There is no way that was a 5th place talented team we had that year.

2016-2017 I thought we played up to our potential. I'll give Prohm alot of credit for putting Solomon in the lineup, that was a 4 guard team that was getting destroyed in the paint similiar to this years team, but Young provided a huge lift and we salvaged the season. I think it was more the 4 seniors refusing to go out in the NIT, but I'll give Prohm credit for that year.

Last year was a complete dumpster fire, I've tried to erase that from my memory.

Honest question for you here, and I'm not trying to start another fight with you, as I think we've had enough of those already, but if a Sweet 16 season is a disappointment for you, and you're pretty much on record as saying that it is, how did you feel about the '14-15 team that crapped all over itself in the first round of the tournament and lost to UAB?

 

[4theCYcle]

I am going to briefly summarize the complaints about the team this year over the past week. Many of these are legitimate criticisms if leveled in good faith. This is a good basketball team, but it has flaws, and many of them boil down to the following...

-- lacking in "bulk" (and not necessarily of the vertical nature, given Mike and Cam are both 6'8" or 6'9", but both of them top out in the 220 or so range)
-- lacking in fundamentals (e.g., positioning and boxing out) on the defensive boards
-- general "toughness" on defense and on the boards
-- lacking in defensive positioning and not very good at defending the PNR

Solomon would correct for many of those problems.

I have to admire how well Prohm put this roster together -- we do have a toughness guy/enforcer, but he is hurt. Solomon putting a body or setting a hard screen or two would certainly set the tone in a few of these games we have struggled with.

I know, it's such the Cyclone way to have something of an area or fault fall short based on an injury. Young knows his role. He provides a decent mid-range shot when needed, a sense of silent toughness who just goes to work and doesn't gripe about anything, a defensive presence and was able to move around enough in a spaced offense to not be out of place. His size is vastly needed. I think the front court next year will be the best and deepest we've ever seen.

 

[madguy30]

It didn't act like a Hoiberg team because that team finished 10-8, if it were a typical Hoiberg team it would have finished at least 11-7 or 12-6. Im sorry, but 5th place that year and not even winning a game in the Big 12 tourney was unacceptable. That first year is one of the reasons I still have alot of animosity towards Fred leaving and Prohm being hired.

Had we continued where we left off with those same players I think I would feel differently about Prohm. You could tell right away the program had taken a step back.

I'd recommend taking care of this part first.

You just KNOW Fred would have won a Big 12 tourney game with that team since he couldn't even with Royce and his teams basically played with fire for both of their magical runs.

 

[Cat Stevens]

Do we as fans need to prepare for tonight? What should I be doing?

Getting prepared to go looting

 

[jsb]

Lol, its called core players getting better and returning from the previous year. Isn't that what most preseason predictions are based on?

One of the core players didn’t play. And they didn’t implode. They won one less than you thought was acceptable and won two more ncaa games than the previous year.

 

[EarthIsMan]

Agree, but that cuts both ways, too. It’s okay to view 4th or 5th a disappointment even though preseason guesses had lower. And past seasons from long ago can be tough to let go, but a better job of managing realistic expectations also means being comfortable with some seasons being a disappointment regardless of well it looks compared to seasons from previous decades.

I am not sure I follow....my expectations are not based on previous decades. I try to base my expectations on ISU's personnel and its perceived team strengths and weaknesses relative to other competition it plays during that particular season.

 

[isufbcurt]

Do we as fans need to prepare for tonight? What should I be doing?

Jumping jacks. get warmed up man