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Will Prohm ever win a championship?

mynameisjonas said:
It's useless to use last year as any sort of benchmark whatsoever. Hoiberg left the cupboard bare, and everyone knew last year was going to be bad. And we also knew we would be much better this year. I don't use last year as a benchmark for this team, and I don't hold last year against Prohm. It's just a wash for me, something to erase from our memory. Not saying I agree with the person that you responded to, just wanted to give my thoughts on last year.
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I think that's fair assessment on your part.

I guess I just see it as being a part of what I see as a very high and frankly unfair standard that Prohm gets held to by some posters on here, not coincidentally some of the same posters who belong to what I refer to as the Cult of Fred. The Sweet 16 season was "meh" because we didn't beat anybody "good" to get there (not making this up, this has actually been used as something against Prohm) is just one example. Fred's lack of defense became something of a charming affectation of his teams for some ("yeah, our defense really kind of sucks, but hey, it's okay, because....Fred!"), but we screw up an occasional out of bounds play and people lose their sh!t. We're having a really nice bounce back season despite our recent setbacks and people are still calling for his job because we're not going to win the Big 12 one season after finishing dead last in it.

It's pure b*llshit.
 
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madguy30 said:
14-13 Xavier up 14 on 20-7 Nova.

Nova's program is just a dumpster fire now.
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Yeah was going to post this score. Not that it makes the losses any better, but people are saying ISU is falling apart due to some one and two possession losses to teams (TCU at home being the exception) that are going to be in the tournament. Meanwhile Nova gets housed by a Xavier team that is probably going to have a tough time making the NIT. KU is still rolling McD All-Americans on the floor and gets blown out by 30.
 
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ISUChippewa said:
I think that's fair assessment on your part.

I guess I just see it as being a part of what I see as a very high and frankly unfair standard that Prohm gets held to by some posters on here, not coincidentally some of the same posters who belong to what I refer to as the Cult of Fred. The Sweet 16 season was "meh" because we didn't beat anybody "good" to get there (not making this up, this has actually been used as something against Prohm) is just one example. Fred's lack of defense became something of a charming affectation of his teams for some ("yeah, our defense really kind of sucks, but hey, it's okay, because....Fred!"), but we screw up an occasional out of bounds play and people lose their sh!t. We're having a really nice bounce back season despite our recent setbacks and people are still calling for his job because we're not going to win the Big 12 one season after finishing dead last in it.

It's pure b*llshit.
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It's tough to have a debate about Prohm on here. He can and should be criticized or praised, if the situation warrants. The conundrum that our fan base is in, is the people that never gave him a chance that will criticize him just because he's not Fred and will blame Prohm for everything they can think of. These people are basically toxic, and can't be reasoned with. The problem on my end, is that sometimes it's tough to differentiate those that legitimately have a beef with something that Prohm is doing, and those that just jump on the bandwagon and pile on anytime there is a questionable coaching decision because of their love for their ex that dumped them. (How do you not get over getting dumped after 3 years?). I have held off on criticizing Prohm in some situations, just because I don't want to give the Hoiberg lovers the bait. But that stifles legitimate debate that should be had.
 
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Cyrealist said:
I think Prohm has done an outstanding job of recruiting, but I don't think he's done well as a coach. Fred usually started with a different group every year, but by this time of the season he had them playing as a team and close to their potential. This team has gotten worse as the year has gone along and look like they just met one another last week. How is that going to change in the future?
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Good lord, I know you guys loved you some Hoiberg but the dude never lost less than 6 Big 12 games and never went undefeated at home and made one trip past the first weekend of the tourney. You guys act like he was out there that had a ton of success. If you're going to always compare Prohm to Hoiberg maybe you should at least have a better understanding of what Hoiberg really accomplished. You vastly overstate Hoiberg's abilities based on him being "The Mayor" and for being a big improvement over the terrible coach prior to him. If Prohm wins one game in the ncaa tourney, he will match Hoiberg's total number of ncaa wins and has already advanced as far in the tourney with Fred's players (Sweet 16) as Fred did with Fred's players.
 
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ISUChippewa said:
This is just ridiculous. We won 13 freakin' games last season and we've already won 19 so far this season. Are you honestly going to try and argue that the program hasn't moved forward from last season? Good grief.
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Man, if you're setting the bar as just 'being better than last season's total disaster' we should just shut down the program.
 
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randomfan44 said:
Good lord, I know you guys loved you some Hoiberg but the dude never lost less than 6 Big 12 games and never went undefeated at home and made one trip past the first weekend of the tourney. You guys act like he was out there that had a ton of success. If you're going to always compare Prohm to Hoiberg maybe you should at least have a better understanding of what Hoiberg really accomplished. You vastly overstate Hoiberg's abilities based on him being "The Mayor" and for being a big improvement over the terrible coach prior to him. If Prohm wins one game in the ncaa tourney, he will match Hoiberg's total number of ncaa wins and has already advanced as far in the tourney with Fred's players (Sweet 16) as Fred did with Fred's players.
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I know people give you a lot of grief for being a KU fan, but sometimes an outside perspective is appreciated.
 
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ISUChippewa said:
Wow. How refreshing to see a nuanced post that has some thought behind it. We don't get enough of those on here.

Regarding the bolded part above; since Johnny Orr retired back in '94, we've gone through Tim Floyd (4 years), Larry Eustachy (5 years), Wayne Morgan (3 years), Greg McDermott (5 very long and frustrating years), Fred (5 years), and now we're on our 4th year with Steve Prohm. That's six different coaches in just a bit more than 20 years. Bill Self has been with Kansas now for 16 years, Bruce Weber is in his 7th year with K-State, Thuggy Bear is in his 12th with the 'Neers, Drew has been with Baylor now for 16 years, Kruger with Oklahoma for going on 8 years. The rest of the Big 12 coaches are still in the early stages of their careers at their respective schools, but how many seasons was Barnes at Texas before Shaka got started? Quite a few.

Yet, we have a vocal minority of "fans" clamoring for a coaching change because of a late-season lull in one of the best conferences in the nation, because we won't finish first in the conference one season after we finished dead last. I used to think we were one of the smartest fan bases in the entire country, but after some of the things I've read yesterday and today I don't think I can feel that way anymore.
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Lol, who the hell wants a coaching change? I might have said it once out of frustration but everyone knows that isnt realistic and he's not going anywhere. Alot of us simply want this coaching staff to maximize its talent level for once.

Monte's senior year I thought they finished the regular season and tourney right on par with how good they were. There is still alot TBD about this season, but it could very well be the 3rd time in 4 years where we just arent getting it done.
 
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madguy30 said:
Without looking, I'm guessing a portion of their fans are flipping out.

Just a hunch.
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Two returning starters from the National champs, two returning bench role players, the top grad transfer in the country, 3 top 50 recruits. Not sure what Nova fans' expectations were coming in.
 
jereseib said:
Nah, its just I think we should be able to at least split with Baylor who is missing their best player and TCU who was 3 games under .500 in the conference.
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Why so? Would you feel better if ISU shot 6/20 yesterday from 3 instead of 2/20?

Does ISU have a sharpshooter? Do they have someone like Noi? Do they have someone who can matchup with someone like Noi?

Are ISU's guards good with stopping the dribble inside? Is there anyone down low that's a real defensive presence for ISU?
 
AuH2O said:
Two returning starters from the National champs, two returning bench role players, the top grad transfer in the country, 3 top 50 recruits. Not sure what Nova fans' expectations were coming in.
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If they're anything like some of the ISU fans around here, everything should happen every season or they're mediocre.
 
madguy30 said:
Why so? Would you feel better if ISU shot 6/20 yesterday from 3 instead of 2/20?

Does ISU have a sharpshooter? Do they have someone like Noi? Do they have someone who can matchup with someone like Noi?

Are ISU's guards good with stopping the dribble inside? Is there anyone down low that's a real defensive presence for ISU?
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What do you mean why so? You really have no expectations for this team to be able to handle teams like Baylor and TCU at least once? I don't think it is too much to ask for at least a split. Baylor is missing an all-conference player and TCU has been playing terrible basketball lately. They just lost in Stillwater to one of the most depleted teams in college basketball ffs.

Are you a boss? People should be lining up to work for you if this is the expectations you have in real life.
 
jereseib said:
What do you mean why so? You really have no expectations for this team to be able to handle teams like Baylor and TCU at least once? I don't think it is too much to ask for at least a split. Baylor is missing an all-conference player and TCU has been playing terrible basketball lately. They just lost in Stillwater to one of the most depleted teams in college basketball ffs.

Are you a boss? People should be lining up to work for you if this is the expectations you have in real life.
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Yes because real life is exactly like being a fan of some amateur basketball team. Good call.

Baylor has been a sh*tty matchup for ISU for years, and TCU seems to be too. Splitting with both would have been great, and it was *this* close 3/4 times, but if you really look at it, the way those teams play is a problem for this ISU group.

SY is someone that would have provided help in both games as he provides size and some length and iirc was pretty good at guarding the pick and roll.

Now you'll go have a meltdown and scream outside for a while and come back and say that CSP wouldn't have played SY, but you don't actually know that...it's just all a part of your magnified anger.
 
22 pages of pure anger. Come on fanatic, you have more anger in you than that! Let it all out!
 
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