Will Prohm ever win a championship?

Yep. Let's just get to the tourney every year and call it good. No reason to strive for anything better than "just getting to the tournament", i.e. something that's really a pretty mediocre achievement.
Since when did making the NCAA tournament meet the definitive of mediocre? I have always considered making the tournament as a barometer of success and anything beyond that is icing on the cake. If you have a different stance, you should probably be cheering for one of the blue bloods.
 
I would say that is better. My point is OU was up double digits all game and then missed front end of 1-1 and TX had a chance to win. The fact they used all that energy and almost blew a lead bodes well as they are the ones traveling on a day of rest to play a team that shot poorly and have been hearing how they suck at home. Factor in that ISU is a much better team than OU and you have the makings of a 10-15 point win.

This probably sounds silly, but I'm feeling a little bit better after the second half yesterday. Wasn't happy we dug ourselves into that hole, but we FOUGHT in the second half, and were right there at the end. We lost because TCU made some stupid clutch shots.

I think this team will be hungry for a win; tomorrow is a great opportunity to bounce back.
 
This probably sounds silly, but I'm feeling a little bit better after the second half yesterday. Wasn't happy we dug ourselves into that hole, but we FOUGHT in the second half, and were right there at the end. We lost because TCU made some stupid clutch shots.

I think this team will be hungry for a win; tomorrow is a great opportunity to bounce back.
Not silly at all. Tomorrow is a game that they are due. Not sure what the line will be. Probably around 5-6 since they have lost three times as double digit favorites, so this will be the game they win by 15.
 
They will crush OU. It is human nature to have a better shooting game, at home against a team that plain isn't very good. Add in the fact that OU almost gave up a huge lead and lost to their rival and this has the makings of a blow out.

Kinda glad it's a quick turnaround.

This team needs an interjection.

If it's a repeat from Baylor then I'm not sure if there's much that can be done.
 
Since when did making the NCAA tournament meet the definitive of mediocre? I have always considered making the tournament as a barometer of success and anything beyond that is icing on the cake. If you have a different stance, you should probably be cheering for one of the blue bloods.
It seems like most years at least half of the Big 12 makes the tournament so theoretically we can be mediocre in the conference and still be in the NCAA tournament. Also I disagree with the sentiment that since we haven't had great success in the past we shouldn't aspire or strive for it in the future.
 
I stayed off CF for the initial meltdown yesterday, but I have enough thoughts that I'll unpack. Glad @Peter retracted his outburst.

This team is in a slump right now, but there is still a lot of basketball left to be played. A lot of teams go through slumps (Kane's team lost 3 straight after beating #7 Baylor at home, and was 3-4 in conference at one point. Heck, they were only 6-5 after getting their asses handed to them at WV), but I think we're freaking out because it's coming at a bad time. Still been a good season and bounce back from last year.

The past couple weeks have exposed us, not as a bad team, but as a team with too many weaknesses to play consistently to win a championship. I'll admit I was one of the ones that bought into the hype and have been let down, but I also didn't expect to be in the conversation going into this season. I maintain my stance that if we have a healthy Solomon things would be different. With him, I don't know if we beat Baylor, but we wouldn't have gotten out-rebounded by that margin. I think we've done a good job this season considering the injuries, suspensions and some bad luck.

Calling us a young team is somewhat of a half-truth. Yes, we have a good balance of young guys and veterans, but most of these guys are competing with each other for the first time this season. Wiggs, Lard and Talley are the only holdovers from last season. We do have freshmen getting meaningful minutes, and lo and behold they've played like freshmen at times. K-State is probably going to win the conference this year, mainly because they have a team of veterans that have been playing together for years. I'm excited to see guys like Tyrese and George develop in this program.

Re: Prohm, is he a perfect coach? No. I think he's stubborn to try things he's not comfortable with, and question some of his substitutions. But I think he's also a young coach with a lot to learn still, and he has a done a fine job rebuilding from last season and rebalancing the classes. Criticism of his coaching is fine, but the speculation of whether or not he's the right man for the job is premature. Especially the select few throwing out McD comparisons; McD's teams each year won 14-15 games, finished in the Big 12 cellar, and had his best players transfer out. We're not close to that point yet. Personally, I want CSP to succeed because I'm tired of cycling through coaches every 4-5 years; I think that's been the elephant in the room as to why we haven't been able to take the "next step" we talk about so much.

I did have to laugh at the poster saying just making the NCAA tournament is "mediocre." Making the tournament is the standard most non-blue blood programs use as their barometer for success. It's how Bruce Weber saved his job a couple years ago.

Rant over. See you all in Hilton tomorrow.
I'm pretty sure Babb is a holdover from last year as well.
 
Yep. Let's just get to the tourney every year and call it good. No reason to strive for anything better than "just getting to the tournament", i.e. something that's really a pretty mediocre achievement.

No it isn't. You can be mediocre in football (6-6) and still get to a bowl, because you're still only what, top 80 or something out of 130 teams?

In basketball being in the top 64/347 (or 68 if you're someone who counts play-in games as 'in') is not mediocre.

Last year was mediocre.

Spoiled fans are spoiled.
 
First it was Naz, then it was no good post players, then it transitioned to Hoiberg's fault for not recruiting, now I've seen that its Solomons fault for getting hurt.

At what point do we stop with the excuses and start questioning why this coaching staff is underachieving and constantly getting outcoahed by teams with less talent?

You've admitted that you've hated Prohm from the very beginning and will never give him a fair chance.

Why should anyone who isn't part of the Cult of Fred ever take anything you write about basketball seriously?
 
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First it was Naz, then it was no good post players, then it transitioned to Hoiberg's fault for not recruiting, now I've seen that its Solomons fault for getting hurt.

At what point do we stop with the excuses and start questioning why this coaching staff is underachieving and constantly getting outcoahed by teams with less talent?

A good first step for a lot of people would be to stop thinking this ISU team is so much more talented than other teams.
 
I stayed off CF for the initial meltdown yesterday, but I have enough thoughts that I'll unpack. Glad @Peter retracted his outburst.

This team is in a slump right now, but there is still a lot of basketball left to be played. A lot of teams go through slumps (Kane's team lost 3 straight after beating #7 Baylor at home, and was 3-4 in conference at one point. Heck, they were only 6-5 after getting their asses handed to them at WV), but I think we're freaking out because it's coming at a bad time. Still been a good season and bounce back from last year.

The past couple weeks have exposed us, not as a bad team, but as a team with too many weaknesses to play consistently to win a championship. I'll admit I was one of the ones that bought into the hype and have been let down, but I also didn't expect to be in the conversation going into this season. I maintain my stance that if we have a healthy Solomon things would be different. With him, I don't know if we beat Baylor, but we wouldn't have gotten out-rebounded by that margin. I think we've done a good job this season considering the injuries, suspensions and some bad luck.

Calling us a young team is somewhat of a half-truth. Yes, we have a good balance of young guys and veterans, but most of these guys are competing with each other for the first time this season. Wiggs, Lard and Talley are the only holdovers from last season. We do have freshmen getting meaningful minutes, and lo and behold they've played like freshmen at times. K-State is probably going to win the conference this year, mainly because they have a team of veterans that have been playing together for years. I'm excited to see guys like Tyrese and George develop in this program.

Re: Prohm, is he a perfect coach? No. I think he's stubborn to try things he's not comfortable with, and question some of his substitutions. But I think he's also a young coach with a lot to learn still, and he has a done a fine job rebuilding from last season and rebalancing the classes. Criticism of his coaching is fine, but the speculation of whether or not he's the right man for the job is premature. Especially the select few throwing out McD comparisons; McD's teams each year won 14-15 games, finished in the Big 12 cellar, and had his best players transfer out. We're not close to that point yet. Personally, I want CSP to succeed because I'm tired of cycling through coaches every 4-5 years; I think that's been the elephant in the room as to why we haven't been able to take the "next step" we talk about so much.

I did have to laugh at the poster saying just making the NCAA tournament is "mediocre." Making the tournament is the standard most non-blue blood programs use as their barometer for success. It's how Bruce Weber saved his job a couple years ago.

Rant over. See you all in Hilton tomorrow.

Wow. How refreshing to see a nuanced post that has some thought behind it. We don't get enough of those on here.

Regarding the bolded part above; since Johnny Orr retired back in '94, we've gone through Tim Floyd (4 years), Larry Eustachy (5 years), Wayne Morgan (3 years), Greg McDermott (5 very long and frustrating years), Fred (5 years), and now we're on our 4th year with Steve Prohm. That's six different coaches in just a bit more than 20 years. Bill Self has been with Kansas now for 16 years, Bruce Weber is in his 7th year with K-State, Thuggy Bear is in his 12th with the 'Neers, Drew has been with Baylor now for 16 years, Kruger with Oklahoma for going on 8 years. The rest of the Big 12 coaches are still in the early stages of their careers at their respective schools, but how many seasons was Barnes at Texas before Shaka got started? Quite a few.

Yet, we have a vocal minority of "fans" clamoring for a coaching change because of a late-season lull in one of the best conferences in the nation, because we won't finish first in the conference one season after we finished dead last. I used to think we were one of the smartest fan bases in the entire country, but after some of the things I've read yesterday and today I don't think I can feel that way anymore.
 
It appears you are shifting the goal posts on what success this season is and what the expectations were up to this point. Both here and in the media we heard this team is good enough to compete for a BIG12 Champ, good enough to make a deep run in the tourney, and they still might. But now that they have been exposed on several occasions by getting out coached, out hustled, less physical, less clutch, suddenly this team is over achieving because how this team is constructed?

I don't think those that oppose your view point have low basketball IQ just because you can spin it the way that fits your narrative.

I never wrote the second part of what you ascribe to me. Don't you ever f*cking make up sh!t about what I write in order to push your agenda again. Personally, I think that's a good reason for a temporary ban.
 
I think I am quite thoughtful about my position and my posting. I am not a stupid person and don't need your validation to think otherwise. Of course there will be turnover, such is any change in coaching. The question is if it is worth given what we know about a coach.You are thinking short term. I am thinking long term. This coach and his shortcomings have already cost this program.

I have seen your emotional posts. Perhaps you need to look at things more objectively rather than emotionally.

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Obviously you don't need my validation, as you put it, since you quite clearly think and feel quite highly about yourself as it is.

Put your money where your mouth is; you are on record as supporting a coaching change. I want some names from you; who do you want to see be our next coach? Names please.
 
With Mayor’s players...

That's not completely fair or accurate; Donovan Jackson, Solomon Young, Babb, and even Darrell Bowie in the game against West Virginia were not the Mayor's players.
 
I hate being known as a soft team and that is exactly how teams view us in the Big12. I will wait till the end of the year, but Prohm is struggling to move this program forward.

This is just ridiculous. We won 13 freakin' games last season and we've already won 19 so far this season. Are you honestly going to try and argue that the program hasn't moved forward from last season? Good grief.
 
This is just ridiculous. We won 13 freakin' games last season and we've already won 19 so far this season. Are you honestly going to try and argue that the program hasn't moved forward from last season? Good grief.

It's useless to use last year as any sort of benchmark whatsoever. Hoiberg left the cupboard bare, and everyone knew last year was going to be bad. And we also knew we would be much better this year. I don't use last year as a benchmark for this team, and I don't hold last year against Prohm. It's just a wash for me, something to erase from our memory. Not saying I agree with the person that you responded to, just wanted to give my thoughts on last year.
 
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