Matt Lauer Fired
- Thread starter State43
- Start date
Ok. You don't like NBC News. We get it. That's not the point of this thread.
Well, everyone else in this thread seems to have managed. I don't access The Cave but I have to imagine there are countless threads where you can add Matt Lauer to the list and have at it.
A few others have referenced it, but this is something that has always bothered me. You're right that pretty much every woman has a story of sexual harassment or sexual assault or legitimate fear of sexual assault. I don't dispute at all that these stories are true, but I've always struggled with understanding the source. The general impression you get from the news and social media is that we should believe the answer is that most men knowingly and intentionally commit sexual harassment at some time or another in their life, or do it out of a level of stupidity that is pretty much criminal in its own right. To me that does not line up with my impression of myself as a man and the men that I know. Most men do not want to commit sexual harassment and are generally smart enough to know there is a clear line you do not cross.
It seems like there has to be one of three things going on:
1) As mentioned by another poster - men of older generations are more prone to this because it was considered more acceptable when they were coming of age. I think this is partially true: men of younger generations are less likely to do something that is clearly wrong, but I don't think that you can say younger men never or almost never commit sexual harassment.
2) As also mentioned by another poster - some men are "serial harassers" and a few men harass many women. I think this is also partially true, but again probably isn't an answer to everything.
3) Most men don't intend to harass women, but what they say or do without bad intent is still hurtful. I would guess that most or all of the male posters, including myself, here at CF are fairly confident we've never committed sexual harassment - so how is it that so many women have been harassed?
I think it comes down to the fact that we as humans tend to view our own actions in the best possible light. If you read Louis CK's confession about his harassment, he talks about how he always asked permission before doing anything inappropriate and because of that he felt that he was doing the right thing -- making sure his sexual advances were wanted. Yet, several of the women on the receiving end didn't want those advances and felt pressured into saying yes due to his position. What he did is an extreme example and clearly crossed a line, but what bothers me is that it doesn't need to be something so extreme. For example, if I flirt with a female co-worker I may see it as harmless fun and I may feel that she is having fun too - but she may not feel that way. She might feel pressured into going along with it in order to avoid causing a scene or problems.
I always hoped that maybe this wasn't true for younger women, but it seems like it still is. I'm not sure why any guy thinks it is ok to ask a woman he works with how big her nipples are. I don't see how this is a difficult thing to understand.
I feel like every woman I know in my own age group has this treatment in their work history. My sister is in her 60's but still rants and raves about her first job out of college, accepted a ride to a company picnic from her supervisor as she was new to the area and didn't know where the park was, and was informed on the ride back to the office that layoffs were coming and she would be on the list if she didn't put out. I think maybe this obvious quid pro quo thing is less common now, but then I catch the news each day and wonder.
From my own experience, also my first job out of college, was working with someone who was always making suggestive comments. Telling him it made me uncomfortable seemed to escalate his conduct. Finally went to a higher up supervisor when he grabbed me in a manner I considered an assault. Was told I was already more valuable an employee than he was and that I would never have to work with him again, but he did keep his job and probably was an incompetent employee and groper until his eventual retirement.
Other things I have experienced that I don't think are ok and I don't think it should be hard to figure out why:
Telling your co-worker her boobs are huge now that she's pregnant.
Touching your co-worker's pregnant belly.
Asking for a recap of how the child was conceived.
Supposedly joking about creating a business calendar with photos of the women in the office for different months.
Suggesting a negotiation would go better if your co-worker unbuttons a couple of buttons before the meeting.
Repeatedly telling your coworker about your sexual preferences.
I don't think these things are ignorance or hard to determine where the line is. They always seem to me to be using a position of authority to make a woman feel small and in her place.
I agree. The thing is with him being the top guy and their golden boy. I am sure they have more proof on this than what we will ever find out. No way they fire Lauer on just a simple accusation. Something went down.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/29/business/media/nbc-matt-lauer.html
Yeah, a several-hour long meeting with the woman and her attorney seems to indicate some kind of proof that could be substantiated.
Thank you for sharing. I'm sorry that kind of crap happened to you and keeps happening. It's surprising to me what people think they can get away with, honestly.
This is where men need to have an adjustment in thinking and this is my fear. I've never done anything sexually inappropriate in the workplace in MY mind. Huge buttttt, how my actions are perceived not just by the person I'm talking with, but by anyone who SEES the interaction is where danger lurks.
Another story from my USAF days. I was consensually intimate with a woman in our squadron and a few days later I was hearing feedback about my performance from the people she told (there was crying and it was me). I was taking a lot of ribbing, so I responded with something locker-roomy to a close bunch of male friends. It was overheard by another female in my squadron and I was taken to Social Actions (if they still call it that?).
There are several obvious answers to this - don't fish off the company dock, don't engage in any banter, etc... but my "private" conversation with male co-workers was overheard and I was held to account. It wasn't harassment, however it was perceived by the other woman as something else and in hindsight she was completely right.
This was 30+ years ago, but I would LOVE to hear what the other woman's perspective was and how it made her feel because that was her reality of me and most likely we remembered it very differently.
Perception is reality and there will be lots of men found guilty in the court of public opinion and hopefully MOST are deserving of the verdict.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
I didn't even know these things were considered options by people, much less how widespread a problem it really is. It's pretty disturbing.
I'm in a very brief period of "deep thinking". I need to find a male encounter group, sweat lodge, vision quest or something!
Aren't you the same poster who posted that the regents shouldn't select a minority for the ISU president position because it might rile up racists?
Do you have any other terrible opinions you wanna just go ahead and get out there?
The days of grandpa stalking grandma and wearing her down are over.
Some of the "romantic" stories I heard as a kid seemed creepy then. They seem criminal now
I remember hearing stories of Grandpa asking Grandma out repeatedly. Being "persistent."
I guess I missed the part of the story where Grandpa unbuttoned Grandma's blouse at the Church picnic . . .
I had a female coworker once tell me to feel the baby kick, I felt weird and said no thanks. This woman had no qualms with anything though. I have heard women talk about things like boobs getting bigger and other women things around me, laugh and ask what I think. My go to is, I'm not touching that subject.
I'm getting the feeling either I'm the only one who has been in some odd settings or only one willing to admit it. I've had probably more female co-workers than make over the years (one I was one of 20 when the other male was fired) so maybe that's it.
Carvers, I am with you that I hope no woman or person has to go through what you mentioned. I hope we keep advancing as a society.
