I don't know if making jokes about a coworkers breasts is considered an "office joke"?
Matt Lauer Fired
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I once got promoted in a job over somebody who had more experience because he dated another management person at our level. Dating wasn't prohibited, but at different levels of management it would have been problematic.
I think women in a male dominated workplace will cut her colleagues a lot of slack, like KC said. They don't want their presence to change the environment at all. But there is a line, and it is different for everyone. You can't enforce a collegial environment, the employees have to create it for each other.
HR issues are a big reason why I left that job.
I think women in a male dominated workplace will cut her colleagues a lot of slack, like KC said. They don't want their presence to change the environment at all. But there is a line, and it is different for everyone. You can't enforce a collegial environment, the employees have to create it for each other.
HR issues are a big reason why I left that job.
I choose not to engage with you because of past history; you have a tendency to twist what others say, and to flip positions to foment argument.
Something I want to point out. I don't think there are a ton of men that are harassers. What I do think is that those that are, are serial harassers. So while many of us (men and women) don't know a ton of people that are like this I think one harasser can have MULTIPLE victims over a long period of time. This is why the number of folks that have been a victim is so high. I could be wrong on this but it is something I feel.
I am very glad that harassers are getting called out. To me it's pretty simple. Don't do it. I know we are all different but man I just don't get the behavior.
Eh, not QUITE what I meant.
It's not so much cutting them slack as not being bothered by the banter while another woman might find it offensive. I'm hard-pressed to come up with an equivalent scenario for the flip side, unless maybe women start talking about periods and labor & nursing with cracked nipples. Most men get pretty darn squeamish around those topics.
That's the "know your audience" part.
It's a skit they did from a few years back (internet search indicates it's from December 2014).
Terrible optics are terrible.
Just trying to post an example of something relatively innocent that could be taken the wrong way. Which seems like some people might be wary of.
New example, just happened in my office.
We started talking about playing Card Against Humanity with family and friends. We were all SUPER careful not to blurt out any of the phrases from the cards. A friend of mine wanted to share a story of a combination someone used when he last played. He whispered it to us. If he hadn't whispered it to us, and someone overheard him, he could have gotten in trouble. Especially with the combination he referenced.
The issue is, don't bring a coconut bra, regardless of the theme. It's just not worth the minor laugh you might get.
Yes people are probably too sensitive, but that's how office politics work now.
That's the point. There is no hard and fast definition and 1 persons harmless actions (to them) is another persons assault.
As a woman that would make md very uncomfortable. Not a fireable offense, but one that should be discussed and a warning.
I don't think that's the issue at all. It would be the same if they brought a sports bra and joked about having the well endowed coworker wear it. The issue is don't make lewd jokes at work and think it's ok unless you happen to have that rare unicorn job where that kind of thing is acceptable, and I'm sure those jobs do exist.
Sorry I misread the story. I thought it said "one guy was joking about having to where it" as in he was going to wear it.
Yes him joking about having her wear it is an issue.
I think we can probably just make a blanket rule that joking about a coworkers breasts is probably on the wrong side of the line most of the time.
Ok - I'll await other responses. And if I have ever posted overtly or covertly support for abuse of women, children or animals I should be held to account.
But very few people are going to report stuff like that. And women aren’t idiots. You make a dumb joke once or twice and we’ll ignore it. You consistently act like a sexist pig, then it’s a you problem.
Everyone should be held to a similar standard of basic respect and decency regardless of field.
If we can’t say something like that it’s a silly and pointless discussion at best. An immoral and irresponsible one at worst.
totally agree. I read that example and thought yeah, that dude deserves a sit down about appropriate behavior.
didn't read all of this thread, but i'm assuming the following will answer some of the above discourse:
1) he has lots of consensual relationships with staff and other people, most notably Giada De Larentas the Italian chef lady and a much rumored (never corroborated, but slight head nod approved) mutual affair with Natalie Morales.
2) Those were always swept under because they were consensual, but this particular allegation from last night was from 2014 in Sochi, with a staffer, and was not consensual apparently.
3) Guthrie (who I LOVE) new of the NYT investigation, and last night new of the complaint, but was only told this morning about the termination.
4) Feel like Tamron Hall (who I also LOVE) and is no longer with the Today show after being upset about the Megyn Kelly hiring will somehow be in play. Her disappearance from the show and NBC spotlights was more quick and less translucent than Morales.
5) The NYT investigation is why he was fired and not suspended "pending further investigation." They have lots to go on.
anyway, Guthrie will be alright, bet Willie Geist gets the "interim" tag and will host all the NBC Christmas stuff. Lauer won't be the last one.
*side bar....the "people are so sensitive now" argument is ignorant and short sighted. It has always been insulting or insensitive, just nobody spoke up because they were looking out for their well being. Just like, "kids these days are to sensitive." No, a 45 year old man, screaming at 18 year olds because they didn't properly do a pick and roll has always been insane, just nobody said anything because they weren't empowered. end rant.
1) he has lots of consensual relationships with staff and other people, most notably Giada De Larentas the Italian chef lady and a much rumored (never corroborated, but slight head nod approved) mutual affair with Natalie Morales.
2) Those were always swept under because they were consensual, but this particular allegation from last night was from 2014 in Sochi, with a staffer, and was not consensual apparently.
3) Guthrie (who I LOVE) new of the NYT investigation, and last night new of the complaint, but was only told this morning about the termination.
4) Feel like Tamron Hall (who I also LOVE) and is no longer with the Today show after being upset about the Megyn Kelly hiring will somehow be in play. Her disappearance from the show and NBC spotlights was more quick and less translucent than Morales.
5) The NYT investigation is why he was fired and not suspended "pending further investigation." They have lots to go on.
anyway, Guthrie will be alright, bet Willie Geist gets the "interim" tag and will host all the NBC Christmas stuff. Lauer won't be the last one.
*side bar....the "people are so sensitive now" argument is ignorant and short sighted. It has always been insulting or insensitive, just nobody spoke up because they were looking out for their well being. Just like, "kids these days are to sensitive." No, a 45 year old man, screaming at 18 year olds because they didn't properly do a pick and roll has always been insane, just nobody said anything because they weren't empowered. end rant.
