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Another Malaysia airlines crash?

R

RubyClone

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Mar 21, 2014
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I'm just reading this via twitter feeds, but Putin is holding Ukraine responsible because it was brought down in Ukrainian airspace?

BREAKING: Putin says airplane disaster would not have happened if Kiev had not renewed military operation against rebels in east Ukraine
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:skeptical:

Well - I suppose that's a change of pace. Putin acknowledging Ukrainian sovereignty.

Also - report states at least 154 Dutch citizens aboard.


Edit: Sorry, wrong post up there. But I'll leave it cause it's just as ludicrous. This is the one I meant.

BREAKING: Russia's Putin says Kiev bears responsibility for crash of passenger plane because it was brought down in Ukraine: RIA
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Rabbuk

Rabbuk

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Mar 1, 2011
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Walden4Prez said:
It would be easier than hitting say a military jet going Mach 1 with counter-measures, threat warning radar, etc, etc.

My only point was, probably the easiest thing to shoot down in the entire world would be a massive commercial jetliner on a constant course, at a constant airspeed, with no warning.

But hey, you know more about shooting down a plane than me Vladimir.
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Welp I guess you're right if you entirely change the scenario then sure.
 
cyinne

cyinne

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In spite of this tragedy this is pure gold! SIAP

[video=youtube;JEDH2Z2_6Zw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEDH2Z2_6Zw[/video]
 
keepngoal

keepngoal

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cyinne said:
In spite of this tragedy this is pure gold! SIAP

[video=youtube;JEDH2Z2_6Zw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEDH2Z2_6Zw[/video]
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wow that guy is a jerk... flat out *******.
 
R

RubyClone

Active Member
Mar 21, 2014
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cyinne said:
In spite of this tragedy this is pure gold! SIAP

[video=youtube;JEDH2Z2_6Zw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEDH2Z2_6Zw[/video]
Click to expand...


I have mixed feelings on that. On one hand, I find it incredibly in poor taste to prank (or make those fake pics you saw from top of 9/11 - stupid **** like that) during such tragedies. Earlier someone had a plane crash pic they were trying to pass off as being this airliner. Clearly wasn't. How empty is your life to try and make light of such a thing. (I'm speaking of the prankster here)

On the other hand - it's a prime example of how the 24-hour news cycle will rush to be first and put anything... ANYTHING on the air as fact (first) with zero confirmation.
 
L

Lyddea

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May 9, 2011
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Not a surprise, but looks like US intelligence is confirming it was shot down by a surface-to-air missile.

A Malaysia Airlines plane carrying 295 passengers and crew came down Thursday while flying over the battle-torn east Ukraine region of Donetsk, after it was hit by what U.S. intelligence agencies said was a surface-to-air missile.

The intelligence sources didn't say whether the missile was fired by Ukrainian forces or pro-Russia separatist rebels.
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http://online.wsj.com/articles/mala...with-plane-over-ukrainian-airspace-1405612373
 
Cyclonestate78

Cyclonestate78

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May 23, 2008
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RubyClone said:
I don't think there's any doubt that these "separatists" have many well, well trained members. Probably a combinations of sympathetic deserters from the Ukrainian military, regular schmucks, mercenaries, Russian infiltrators - the whole range.

And I don't think there's any doubt they have access of these weapons. They've claimed to capture some recently. They took over Crimea and all it's bases. And although it's being reported that US Intel doesn't think such heavy hardware has come across the border from Russia - since when is US Intel so accurate?

I'm just saying - they were talking like the probability that this airliner was shot down, across the Russian border under Russian command and control? The thought is against it.

Is it a mistake made by some (trained) personnel outside the overall network - more likely.

The point was that mistaking a commercial airliner for a cargo plane is not likely when these things are used in a air defense battery that has multiple stations, radars, a chain of command. But rather when it's an lone outpost and a bit renegade.

Who knows. We'll find out I'm sure in due course. And it's not like that command and control served the Russians very well during KAL007.
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I wasn't disagreeing at all with anything you said. In fact... I agree with you. Now that US Officials are confirming that in fact this plane was shot down the only remaining questions are who did it, why did they do it, and how will the global community respond to it. Based on the analysis of some former US Generals it sounds like the individuals that did this had to have had training on using these missile systems. Quite frankly I wouldn't put anything past Putin or his rogue forces being the culprits.
 
BoxsterCy

BoxsterCy

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Putin holding Ukraine responsible is like the “someone was on my front porch so I shot eight times through the door even though it turned out it was the neighbor girl selling cookies” defense. You never know, it could have been a burglar or, you know, the ever dangerous transport plane.
 
CascadeClone

CascadeClone

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Occams razor for me - separatists with "found" Russian SAMs. They have already been shooting down transport planes. They see ML 777 and think it's Ukraine military transport and shoot it down. Oopsies!

Putin won't care, he won't reign those guys in. Just keep destabilizing Ukraine. The messier it gets, the more out of control, the easier to carve a chunk off and dominate the rest. And the longer it takes, the less the West will care.

Question is: what CAN the West do to show we care, and protect Poland and the Baltics (especially) from the same treatment? Will sanctions be enough? Until the Germans do something serious, Putin has a free hand and he knows it. And he is probably smart enough to not go too far to provoke them.

Too bad our leaders (in the US and the West in general) are politicians and not statesmen or strategists. Putin is playing chess and we are playing checkers. Worse, we have way more power (economic and military), yet Putin is running circles around us.
 
ExCyment

ExCyment

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Cyclonestate78 said:
There seems to be conflicting information on these rebel fighters. Some claim they do have access to these high tech surface to air missiles and some claim they don't. There is no doubt that Putin is making sure that these fighters are well armed so it wouldn't be a shock at all to find out that Russia did supply them with these weapons.

I don't know if I buy the fact that these allegedly untrained... rag tag bunch of rebel fighters are in fact what they are portrayed to be. It isn't like Russian special forces with the training and expertise to use these sophisticated weapons couldn't be fighting right alongside these rebel fighters. What... because they don't have on a uniform or identification means they aren't highly trained forces? People can't be that naïve can they? In the early days of the Crimea crisis entire military bases were being taken control of by armed men with no identification on them or their vehicles. I'm sure it was just the "locals" with pro-Russian ties and not Russian military forces... :rolleyes:
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Didn't you see the reporters early when this Crimean thing kicked off asking the soldiers with no patches who they were and they freely admitted they were Russian soldiers there to help.
 
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