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Ok what am i missing with our recruiting?

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MartyFine said:
I think that you are missing the point. Everyone can recognize a 5 star talent, and the teams that get those guys generally win.

However, there are a vast number of players outside of that small sample that are good football players that can help a team win. Recruiting rankings mean nothing in this zone, as no service can possibly evaluate every player who fits into this category. Therefore, "talent" cannot really be defined until those kids have left school.
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What do you know, your name is Marty Fine! :smile:

Seriously though, do stars mean everything? Absolutely not. But do offers. YES. We aren't competing with anyone on these kids. I'm not expecting 4 stars and I don't think anyone is. But it would be nice if we had some kids coming in that were at least being looked at by other schools. That is important.
 
Clones85' said:
What do you know, your name is Marty Fine! :smile:

Seriously though, do stars mean everything? Absolutely not. But do offers. YES. We aren't competing with anyone on these kids. I'm not expecting 4 stars and I don't think anyone is. But it would be nice if we had some kids coming in that were at least being looked at by other schools. That is important.
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Yep...thats what concerns me...not panicked...but kinda makes you wonder whats going on. That and that it took so long to get someone to sign
 
not all NFL players come from BCS schools, so there is plenty of talent at smaller schools. You just have to hope we find those diamonds in the rough.
 
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State43 said:
paul.jpg
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Can someone with some talent (because I do not have any) get a picture like this with the tank on 'F' and Coach with his horseshoe mustache. Need that when we start adding our 4-star players & our 2-stars get upgraded to 3 after their stellar senior seasons.
 
mattyice said:
Wow dude....you are a piece of work.

Look clown....im not flaming on any part of this...asked a simple question and you got your feelers hurt bc i jokingly called it a bored.

Im not hitting the panic button...i asked a simple question as respectfully as i could.....YOU...brought nothing to this thread...so i guess you are what the kids call....umm...trolling.

Gluck with that. K..now run along Billy.
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Everytime you disagree with something I say in this thread or any other you characterize it as getting my feelings hurt. Sorry, I don't care enough about what you say for that to be true. I have suggested to a couple of posters that there is more value in evaluating a recruiting class after it is complete rather than when there are only a few commits and a lot of other offers on the table. If that isn't what you want to hear - too bad, but it is something concrete to add to the discussion.

I won't patronize you with snide dismissive remarks as you seem to do every time you hear something you don't want to hear.
 
I want to know why you think the guys that have committed are mediocre. I'm not a sunshine pumper, but I usually am willing to defer to the people being paid to run the football program.

There are a lot of amateur recruiting 'experts' on the internet. It doesn't mean they know what they are talking about.
 
Clones85' said:
What do you know, your name is Marty Fine! :smile:

Seriously though, do stars mean everything? Absolutely not. But do offers. YES. We aren't competing with anyone on these kids. I'm not expecting 4 stars and I don't think anyone is. But it would be nice if we had some kids coming in that were at least being looked at by other schools. That is important.
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Before I even look at anything, I am going to name the top 10 players from the last few years as far as production/perception. Then I will look them up and find other BCS offers.

KO
Colin Franklin
Jake Knott
AJ Klein
Leonard Johnson
Alexander Robinson
Scott Haughton (I use him from strictly a talent perspective. He was very, very good)
Jesse Smith (The guy produced)
Shontrelle Johnson
Ace Bowen (That's going back a little while)

I will be back with their offers.
 
I think we were all hoping to start reaping the rewards of a win like we had over OSU, but that doesn't seem to be happening. Maybe we all remember the OSU game and all the recruits remember Rutgers. LOL

CPR is an awesome coach, I am sure he will get some great players but it sure would be cool if he could land a few big name guys.

Have we missed out on very many guys or is it just that we are waiting for them to commit?
 
Tre4ISU said:
Before I even look at anything, I am going to name the top 10 players from the last few years as far as production/perception. Then I will look them up and find other BCS offers.

KO
Colin Franklin
Jake Knott
AJ Klein
Leonard Johnson
Alexander Robinson
Scott Haughton (I use him from strictly a talent perspective. He was very, very good)
Jesse Smith (The guy produced)
Shontrelle Johnson
Ace Bowen (That's going back a little while)

I will be back with their offers.
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Don't forget James White. Had a great year last year.
 
Tre4ISU said:
Before I even look at anything, I am going to name the top 10 players from the last few years as far as production/perception. Then I will look them up and find other BCS offers.

KO
Colin Franklin
Jake Knott
AJ Klein
Leonard Johnson
Alexander Robinson
Scott Haughton (I use him from strictly a talent perspective. He was very, very good)
Jesse Smith (The guy produced)
Shontrelle Johnson
Ace Bowen (That's going back a little while)

I will be back with their offers.
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I think you're missing a certain quarterback who may or may not do some work for this website.
 
cyhiphopp said:
The last few classes have ended up full of solid 3 star talent. This class will most likely end up the same with maybe a surprise or two mixed in.

The unrated guys are kids that the staff has seen play and they felt they were worth an offer. I think these guys are currently under the radar and would probably have a few more offers after teams got senior tape on them. It sounds like a cop-out but CPR and staff have done pretty much the same thing each year. They have gone out and been the first major offer on some kids that end up having great years and get looks from other BCS programs before signing day.

Would I love it if all of our guys were 3 stars or better with lots of offers? Sure. CPR hasn't made a habit of bringing in a bunch of scrubs so I say keep the faith brother.
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One thing we don't need to speculate on: early offer guys are guys the staff definitely wants. They may be under the radar or undervalued compared to guys they view with similar skill levels who are higher rated and they like them just as much. Why spend the resources in playing the game with a 'rated' guy when you can get a guy you like just as much for your system without nearly as much competition? We haven't seen the same kind of desperation recruiting moves under the CPR regime that we did under the Mac years, so I tend to give Rhoads the benefit of the doubt. I see the overall level of athletes increasing under CPR and his own comments lend credibility to this.

The talent level is getting better, but the real question remains is it getting better fast enough to move up the ladder in the conference with arguably the best talent in the country? Life is just really tough in the Big12 and we need high character guys who want the challenge of being the underdog 2/3 of the time and maybe won't get the limelight from national media. They also need to be really good players.
 
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KO-Mizzou, TCU
Colin Franklin-ISU only offer listed
Jake Knott-No BCS. NIU best offer
AJ Klein-No BCS. NIU best offer
Leonard Johnson-6 BCS offers
Alexander Robinson-2 BCS offers
Scott Haughton-Can't even find a profile
Jesse Smith- According to Rivals he went to Iowa. That didn't happen. We know the story here.
Shontrelle Johnson-4 BCS offers
Ace Bowen-3 BCS offers

So five of those guys had BCS offers. The most any had was six and most of those BCS offers were from schools in a similar tier. Also, most of those guys have been on the teams seemingly getting better each year. I'm not saying everyone should be excited about every recruit equally, but at the same time, we have found guys who can play that didn't necessarily have a bunch of of offers. We also have young guys that did have those offer like Nealy and Harris. Are offers an indicator? Hell yes, but the lack of offers does not always mean a lack of talent. We will take risks here. Pompey was a risk because of his injury. There have been qualifying risks taken (Nelson) and it will always be that way here.
 
Clark said:
I think you're missing a certain quarterback who may or may not do some work for this website.
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Am I crazy or was he a very highly touted high school recruit? I remember seeing him in a preseason magazine and I think he was a four star recruit.
 
Tre4ISU said:
Before I even look at anything, I am going to name the top 10 players from the last few years as far as production/perception. Then I will look them up and find other BCS offers.

KO
Colin Franklin
Jake Knott
AJ Klein
Leonard Johnson
Alexander Robinson
Scott Haughton (I use him from strictly a talent perspective. He was very, very good)
Jesse Smith (The guy produced)
Shontrelle Johnson
Ace Bowen (That's going back a little while)

I will be back with their offers.
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2007 KO (offered by Mizzou, TCU, Houston and other mid majors)
2007 Colin Franklin
2009 Jake Knott
2009 AJ Klein
2008 Leonard Johnson (had at least 8 other high D1 offers. Ole Miss, Nebraska, etc)
2006 Alexander Robinson (had offers from Minnesota and Kentucky)
2008 Scott Haughton (actually at one point had BIG TIME offers. Michigan, FSU, etc but didn't have grades so people backed off. We somehow got him here, and than grades where the end of it)
2005 Jesse Smith (walkon who was MLB for teams that won 3,2 and 6 games in a season. Love him but come on)
2010 Shontrelle Johnson (Northwestern, Florida, GT, Kentucky, Vanderbilt)
2005 Ace Bowen (Cincinatti, KSU, Pittsburgh)

Thank you for helping me make my point. You listed what you would consider the differnece makers. We are getting maybe 1 diamond in the rough a class? I count 4 out of the 5 years you gave me. All others were recruited by other schools.

And from 2006 to now our record has been
4-8
3-9
2-10
6-6
5-7
6-6

So, are we going to get some guys nobody else has heard of and develop them? Absolutely. I think Symrie is that guy this year. But we need guys like Leonard Johnson in there as well to help us. Arguing otherwise is just not admitting the truth
 
Tre4ISU said:
OK, well replace him with Haughton and you get one more guy and add an offer to Iowa.
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Haughton had a profile. His name is Adrin not Scott. He was a big time commit that nobody thought would be able to make it do to grades.
 
Clones85' said:
2007 KO (offered by Mizzou, TCU, Houston and other mid majors)
2007 Colin Franklin
2009 Jake Knott
2009 AJ Klein
2008 Leonard Johnson (had at least 8 other high D1 offers. Ole Miss, Nebraska, etc)
2006 Alexander Robinson (had offers from Minnesota and Kentucky)
2008 Scott Haughton (actually at one point had BIG TIME offers. Michigan, FSU, etc but didn't have grades so people backed off. We somehow got him here, and than grades where the end of it)
2005 Jesse Smith (walkon who was MLB for teams that won 3,2 and 6 games in a season. Love him but come on)
2010 Shontrelle Johnson (Northwestern, Florida, GT, Kentucky, Vanderbilt)
2005 Ace Bowen (Cincinatti, KSU, Pittsburgh)

Thank you for helping me make my point. You listed what you would consider the differnece makers. We are getting maybe 1 diamond in the rough a class? I count 4 out of the 5 years you gave me. All others were recruited by other schools.

And from 2006 to now our record has been
4-8
3-9
2-10
6-6
5-7
6-6

So, are we going to get some guys nobody else has heard of and develop them? Absolutely. I think Symrie is that guy this year. But we need guys like Leonard Johnson in there as well to help us. Arguing otherwise is just not admitting the truth
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Thats very well done.

Love the diamond in the rough guys.....but guess it would be nice if these early ones who are supposed to be the "Cant miss" guys as another posted stated....were a little more sought after.
 
mattyice said:
No worries...about 15 other people gave much better in depth, and useful information on this than you did in your 5 posts to me....i guess you like me. Im flattered.

"I like review a class after its complete"

Why even post at all if thats all you have...seriously.

At this time....we have 5 guys, who were not recruited by anyone of significance, and are not rated very well.....OTHERS....have the same concern. Thus...its a valid question at THIS TIME given it took so long to get anyone to sign.

Nobody is panicking or bashing CPR.....just a curiosity question. But thank you so much for your "Wait til everyone signs..then review it"....man...thats informative.

Thanks to those of you that are not on bath salts for the replies.
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Now who is trolling.

I've tried to be civil with you, but you are obviously incapable of it if you disagree with someone's point of view. Don't bother replying because I won't see it.
 
bozclone said:
I think we were all hoping to start reaping the rewards of a win like we had over OSU, but that doesn't seem to be happening. Maybe we all remember the OSU game and all the recruits remember Rutgers. LOL

CPR is an awesome coach, I am sure he will get some great players but it sure would be cool if he could land a few big name guys.

Have we missed out on very many guys or is it just that we are waiting for them to commit?
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Well, it takes more than 1 big upset game per season. Keep on with 6-6 records and you'll by and large get guys that fit that level. We really need to pull a K-State and have a breakout year and string a few higher profile bowls together. Even then there's no guarantee. We're starting to get pretty far removed from what anyone with clout would call a big year. We need to string some 8 and 9 win seasons together to really make a big move in recruiting circles I think. Until then, we will need to be content with signing quite a few undervalued guys, hidden gems, some small town steals every year.
 
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