Deep Threat at WR?

[Aclone]

just saying Bliel has done a good job with some young, inexperienced guys... and they have been performing just fine for the most part.

QB sacks isnt always conclusive statistic. our rushing game has been great... and our QBs may hold the ball too long?

I LIKE you guys! You make winning debates easy! :yes:

So, exactly when was our rushing game "great"? I think Troy Davis ran out of eligibility a while ago. We were 6th in the league at 174.2 yards per game rushing. That's as compared to Missouri's 229.2--and which availed us that monster 21.6 ppg scoring, for 9th in the league.

Well, at least our rushing was up about 30ypg over the previous year, though scoring was about the same. But to call either our rushing or passing game "great" is a bit...oh what word am I looking for? Oh yeah! I think calling that great is a bit ludicrous, don't you?

Seriously. I really like Coach Bliel, and I like the direction he has his line group going. Depth keeps getting better and better, and the staff keeps adding better athletes to the mix. But to pretend that the offensive line isn't one symptom, one of the root causes of poor offensive performance is simply fooling yourself.

 

[dualthreat]

I LIKE you guys! You make winning debates easy! :yes:

So, exactly when was our rushing game "great"? I think Troy Davis ran out of eligibility a while ago. We were 6th in the league at 174.2 yards per game rushing. That's as compared to Missouri's 229.2--and which availed us that monster 21.6 ppg scoring, for 9th in the league.

Well, at least our rushing was up about 30ypg over the previous year, though scoring was about the same. But to call either our rushing or passing game "great" is a bit...oh what word am I looking for? Oh yeah! I think calling that great is a bit ludicrous, don't you?

Seriously. I really like Coach Bliel, and I like the direction he has his line group going. Depth keeps getting better and better, and the staff keeps adding better athletes to the mix. But to pretend that the offensive line isn't one symptom, one of the root causes of poor offensive performance is simply fooling yourself.

i am still under the belief that if our OLine was the best in the big 12 last season, we still wouldn't have been much better than 6-7. Our QB play was D to C range. Our OLine (cutting out the UNI game) was a B. And that was with multiple injuries.

how good do u think we would have been?

 

[cuphues]

I'm not sure if JB can even throw it over 40 yards.

THIS!

 

[CascadeClone]

I think I've posted this before but I can give a little insight on why we don't throw deep very much.

1. We are not built to do it. Our QB's work off a rhythm throwing. In order for us to throw deep, the WR must have his route won (has eaten up the DB's cushion) on the QB's third step. if not, the QB will come off that read, hitch up to his second read. If that's not open, you either get a dump to the check down (usually the RB) or the QB will run. We haven't had a WR eat up cushion consistently enough to call a bunch of deep routes. Most of the deep balls last year came from having to keep a play alive because we missed our other reads (scramble drill) and the reverse pass.

2. CPR wants more explosive plays (17+) yards. Those move the chains, keeps the defense on their heels, and can come from higher % throws. We can run a WR screen and get 17 yards. High % pass and YAC. If you look at guys like Weeden and Griffin, they throw tons of screens. They are not completing 65-70% of their passes by throwing deep a lot. They also had guys who could catch a 5-10 pass and turn into 60 or 70 because they got open.

3. YPC need to go up but not by throwing it deeper. Getting more YAC is the answer. How many of our screens or underneath plays went for TD's compared to other teams? Maybe one. The Reynolds leap against UCONN.

This is all true and I agree, CPR wants a consistent offense, and you get that with higher % successful plays. But I have to say I like throwing the deep ball every so often even if you can't complete it. It loosens up a defense, makes them think twice, puts them back a step. And if you never throw deep, they will start crowding up the line. So you gotta toss a couple deep ones a game, just to make the defense think about it.
It's all about balance, just like run vs pass.

 

[FootballinTexas]

THIS!

As a junior in hs, he threw this one 40 yards off of his back foot with three defenders hitting him. I would assume with 3 years at ISU working with Yancy, he's strong enough to throw the ball under normal circumstances alot farther than 40 yards.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...vrmLAw&usg=AFQjCNHJXM0MdigYgRXJjmBAn9LD0hwPkA

Or the 4:18 mark of this one. Thats former ISU player Keith Blanton on the catch.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...vrmLAw&usg=AFQjCNEjbaOK0wLt0QgwEWwMPzA9zfTu1A

 

[letsCYber]

I think losing Money Reynolds is going to hurt more than we think. Who do we have that can go get the ball 40+ yards down field? Lenz doesn't seem like a guy that can or is meant to do that. More of a possession wide out. Gary? West? Horne? Young? Those guys seem like possession recievers. I hope Daniels can step up and be that big body WR we can take a shot to down field. Also I hope maybe Quan West can step in and be a guy like that, but it's going to take him some time to get use to the playbook.

We never have a deep threat. Its depressing. Deeply, deeply depressing.

 

[hoosman]

The over the middle dinks and dunks IMO do have some downfalls: turnovers and injuries. This is a high traffic area with defenders coming from all directions. Just look at our QBs - how many fumbles and injuries did we have last year? Our spring training is full of injuries to our receivers. I think the long passes, even though they are lower probability, are needed for offensive balance.

 

[cuphues]

As a junior in hs, he threw this one 40 yards off of his back foot with three defenders hitting him. I would assume with 3 years at ISU working with Yancy, he's strong enough to throw the ball under normal circumstances alot farther than 40 yards.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...vrmLAw&usg=AFQjCNHJXM0MdigYgRXJjmBAn9LD0hwPkA

Or the 4:18 mark of this one. Thats former ISU player Keith Blanton on the catch.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...vrmLAw&usg=AFQjCNEjbaOK0wLt0QgwEWwMPzA9zfTu1A

Both throws must have been with a strong Texas tailwind!

 

[FootballinTexas]

Both throws must have been with a strong Texas tailwind!

Just imagine what he could do with these cyclone winds in Iowa. 100 yards?

 

[besserheimerphat]

This is all true and I agree, CPR wants a consistent offense, and you get that with higher % successful plays. But I have to say I like throwing the deep ball every so often even if you can't complete it. It loosens up a defense, makes them think twice, puts them back a step. And if you never throw deep, they will start crowding up the line. So you gotta toss a couple deep ones a game, just to make the defense think about it.
It's all about balance, just like run vs pass.

You don't have to THROW it deep, you just need to have a deep route in the play. If you have a deep route then the defense has to cover it whether you throw there or not. If the defense doesn't cover the deep route, the offense it SURE to throw it there. You can open up the field without ever actually throwing the ball deep down field. The problem was that we had a hard time getting open down field without some blown coverage. If the deep route runner can't get open then he's not a true threat.

 

[besserheimerphat]

Since you used the phrase twice, please define "quite a few". I don't remember that many his senior year.

Last year, Money caught 45.3% of the passes thrown to him (43 catches on 95 passes to him, so 52 incompletions). His catch rate in 2010 was 51%. The only receivers with significant playing time who caught a smaller percentage of balls in 2010 or 2011 were Darks and Sedrick Johnson. Everyone else caught 58%+. Unfortunately Money and Darks made up about 1/3 of the total pass attempts last season.

We will have addition by subtraction next year in the passing game. We have a number of returning players who can catch the ball and then gain yards by themselves, regardless of how far down the field they are when they catch the ball.

 

[HiltonMagic23]

Jarvis west is the biggest deep threat we have but we really don't have many

 

[demoncore1031]

From watching highlight videos, I see Dondre Daley potentially being a nice deep threat in the future, but I think he will most likely redshirt this season. I don't think we necessarily need a deep threat, as everyone seems to have different roles that fit nicely together. West and Horne are more of short pass options who can make people miss and turn those short passes into big gains (Horne especially), whereas Josh Lenz can work the sidelines or go over the middle. He and Gary had some nice mid-range receptions last year, but nothing I would call "deep." Can't really say how Gary's deep play ability is since his PT all came when JB was at QB, and he doesn't have much for arm strength.

 

[ISUFan22]

Money disappeared down the stretch, last year. During the first 5 games of the season, he grabbed 26 catches for 488 yards and 6 TD's. In the last 6 games (I'm not counting the Kansas game as he did not play) he had 17 catches for 173 yards and 1 TD.

It's not like he was this huge cog in the offense for us all year. He played well against the non conference teams, Texas and Baylor. But after that, fell off the map.

Correct. Tons of potential, only some of it was produced.

Cracked ribs can do that. Well, that and having a different QB who can't get it down the field...

The Money Train of Excuses keeps on chugging.

I don't think we've had a true deep threat since Todd Blythe. Even though Jake Williams had the ability to make big plays once in awhile. I'm not expecting big things out of the receiver spot this fall. Lenz and Gary are solid but after that it's hit and miss. Hopefully Bundrage is ready to make an impact.

Agreed. WR has been a sore spot for a while now.

Jarvis west is the biggest deep threat we have but we really don't have many

I wonder if Gary could develop into this as well.

Fact is, while a deep threat may not be a requirement, it definitely is a huge asset to an offense. Just one completed deep pass can change a lot about an entire game.

 

[Aclone]

Last year, Money caught 45.3% of the passes thrown to him (43 catches on 95 passes to him, so 52 incompletions).

Interesting numbers that you come up with. However, i repeat--how many drops did he have? You didn't remotely answer my question.

I also realize that the numbers you quoted were affected by several other factors, including A) Money was usually double teamed B) The vast majority of balls thrown his direction were NOT within ten yards of the line of scrimmage, and C) He was also a prime target in the red zone, which led to attention from even more than two defenders. Oh yeah--he brought down a bunch of those, didn't he?

So, would you care to break it down a little more, rather than simply making implications from raw data?

Oh wait, yeah--where DID you get those numbers from???

 

[besserheimerphat]

Interesting numbers that you come up with. However, i repeat--how many drops did he have? You didn't remotely answer my question.

I also realize that the numbers you quoted were affected by several other factors, including A) Money was usually double teamed B) The vast majority of balls thrown his direction were NOT within ten yards of the line of scrimmage, and C) He was also a prime target in the red zone, which led to attention from even more than two defenders. Oh yeah--he brought down a bunch of those, didn't he?

So, would you care to break it down a little more, rather than simply making implications from raw data?

Oh wait, yeah--where DID you get those numbers from???

From the play-by-play on Cyclones.com Unfortunately they don't give the specific information you want, just "pass incomplete to Darius Reynolds." I understand that an incompletion is different than a drop, but the play-by-play doesn't differentiate that. Well, they do give the field position so you could examine performance based on field position but there's nothing about how far down the field he was, the coverage, etc. I bet the coaches have that data, but I don't have the time to watch tape like that.

 

[besserheimerphat]

Interesting numbers that you come up with. However, i repeat--how many drops did he have? You didn't remotely answer my question.

I also realize that the numbers you quoted were affected by several other factors, including A) Money was usually double teamed B) The vast majority of balls thrown his direction were NOT within ten yards of the line of scrimmage, and C) He was also a prime target in the red zone, which led to attention from even more than two defenders. Oh yeah--he brought down a bunch of those, didn't he?

So, would you care to break it down a little more, rather than simply making implications from raw data?

Oh wait, yeah--where DID you get those numbers from???

Yes, he did make some great circus catches. He also dropped some balls that hit him in the hands while wide open. More than I remember from anyone but Darks.

 

[Aclone]

The Money Train of Excuses keeps on chugging.

Hmm. Still haven't learned the difference between "reasons" and "excuses" have you?

Please, allow me to illustrate. An excuse is when a guy says he has to cheat on his wife because she's "frigid". The reason...is because he's worthless in bed. :twitcy:

Now then. Oddly enough, even CPR has said that it's too bad that Money was hampered by injuries in his career here.

I wonder if Gary could develop into this as well.

I think that Gary should be able to break some long, perhaps he or Bundrage. Some of the little details about Bundrage that I hear are intriguing.

Things like "high school high jumper", as well as mentions of what long arms he has.

From watching highlight videos, I see Dondre Daley potentially being a nice deep threat in the future, but I think he will most likely redshirt this season.

Indeed, I really like Daley's video--almost as much as I liked David Irving's HS film. Interestingly, the coaches compared Daley's level of athleticism to Bundrage on Signing Day.

Of course, they are still recruiting as well. People like this guy (and his teammate--since committed to Baylor) tell me that they are looking for vertical threats.

 

[Cychotiic]

If I recall correct Aaron Horne was always going deep in JUCO in his highlight video. But then again JUCO is quite a bit different then the Big XII

 

[DhaCheann]

Quenton Bundrage..The dude has some serious sticky fingers and strong hands.