Mcdermotts best thing at Iowa State was Wes johnson, His worst thing at Iowa State was Wes Johnson. He didn't know how to handle a super star compared to the rest of the non super star guys. He tried to cater to him and at the same time he played him with a broken foot because his job was on the line. He learned his lesson by the time he got to Creighton
Hallice Cooke on Prohm
- Thread starter Urbandale2013
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Mcdermotts best thing at Iowa State was Wes johnson, His worst thing at Iowa State was Wes Johnson. He didn't know how to handle a super star compared to the rest of the non super star guys. He tried to cater to him and at the same time he played him with a broken foot because his job was on the line. He learned his lesson by the time he got to Creighton
I do think it’s funny people think if we had hired TJ the moment that Hoiberg left that it would have been a guaranteed success based on the success he’s having now. Could it have worked? Possibly… but the big reason why it’s working now is because TJ left to learn how to be a head coach at two different schools before he came back… and ISU was in such a bad state when he came back he was able to burn the program to the ground and rebuild it in his own image - something he couldn’t have done a decade ago because 1. He would have been handed a ready-to-win roster that was in Hoiberg’s image, and 2. TJ hadn’t head coached before so he wouldn’t have had his own image to work from. And I’m not sure ISU would have become the defensive juggernaut it is now known for had he just taken the job then instead of developing himself as a coach elsewhere.
And finally - in the next few weeks TJ has the opportunity to surpass everything Hoiberg did when he was coaching here. In a way he already has, being 5-for-5 in tourney appearances, but make it to the Elite 8 and maybe even beyond, start prepping the banner to hang up next to Orr’s (and make sure you get the undersized polo right on the banner).
And finally - in the next few weeks TJ has the opportunity to surpass everything Hoiberg did when he was coaching here. In a way he already has, being 5-for-5 in tourney appearances, but make it to the Elite 8 and maybe even beyond, start prepping the banner to hang up next to Orr’s (and make sure you get the undersized polo right on the banner).
from what I remember, Fred had McKay running the court and kind of hanging back and being a rim protector on defense. CSP wanted him going out on the perimeter and hedging on picks. So part of it was his role in game situations that McKay wasn't happy with. He wanted to do what Fred had him doing, that was maximizing his strengths. There was probably off the court stuff too, but I don't know anything about that.
Good post. Would have loved to see TJ force that group to play this type of defense. And would have been interesting to see how McKay would have responded to his type of discipline. Prohm just wanted practice and go to class. Plus, Naz still was out. He probably would have had a good season, but to think a final four banner was guaranteed because of "Fred's roster" is just foolish.
These tweets by Hallice and Jameel are dumb.
Prohm wasn't the best coach but if they think TJ wouldn't have punished them for the same things they are living in a fantasy world.
Yeah TJ wasn't a disciplinarian when he was the "best friend" assistant coach but that is because he has to follow the directions of his boss, the head coach who by all accounts was very lax. But now that TJ is the head coach he runs his program totally different with strict rules, and the players follow these rules or they are disciplined.
Prohm wasn't the best coach but if they think TJ wouldn't have punished them for the same things they are living in a fantasy world.
Yeah TJ wasn't a disciplinarian when he was the "best friend" assistant coach but that is because he has to follow the directions of his boss, the head coach who by all accounts was very lax. But now that TJ is the head coach he runs his program totally different with strict rules, and the players follow these rules or they are disciplined.
I guess my question is was it always his intention to coach this style of defense… or was it something he developed at his stops at SDSU and UNLV? And if it was something he developed along the way… is it something he would have been able to develop at ISU using Hoiberg’s roster? These are all questions I start asking in my head when the idea starts getting circled around that we should have just hired TJ back then based on the results he has now, thinking it would have been the same results back then.
I'm guessing TJ's journey as an assistant, including at ISU, and head coach were great lessons of what he could envision for his program, what NOT to from your standards in the program even beyond how you want to play the game, etc.
My point exactly - TJ isn’t the TJ as we know him now if he doesn’t leave ISU and learn how to be the TJ he is now.
Plus, Fred was a legend. Not an Iowa State coaching legend yet, but an Iowa State legend. You never want to be the guy that follows the legend. You want to be the guy that follows the guy that followed the legend. In that regard, Prohm was probably the right guy at that time. Plus, if I remember correctly, Nate Oats was being talked about for the job, so I look at it like we used Steve Prohm as a shield to dodge that bullet.
McDermott was a small town Iowa guy who ran a small town Iowa program at UNI. When he got to ISU, Otz brought him kids from cities and other parts of the country and McDermott just couldn't figure out how to make that type of roster work. Luckily for him he learned his lesson by the time he got to Creighton and finally knew how to build a "big time" program."
Greg was a good hire at the time, had won with UNI and was a likable guy. I enjoyed his post game interviews with Eric and John on the way home as he gave much better insight and answers than Wayne ever did. I think most people wanted to see him succeed here but for 1 reason or another he could just not catch a break. The Wesley Johnson situation was shady AF at the time too and really hurt us, Lucca's eligibility battle as well. I chatted with Walters and CW in the P&L one night at the Big 12 tourney when Greg was coach and without saying anything too specific John basically said there were a lot of things going on behind the scenes beyond anyone's control that has hurt Greg's ability to win here that fans were not aware of. If I had to guess he probably was referring to some of the handlers tampering with our best players at the time trying to get them to leave.
I've never held any negative feelings towards Greg and his tenure here. Just turned out to be a bad fit at the time and had other cirmstances working against him. He's obviously done well at Creighton and give him credit for taking that job and not having to force JP's hand to fire him and pay his buyout. That was a classy thing for him to do as if he thought he had a chance to stay at ISU longer I am guessing his son Doug would have committed to play at ISU. Not getting Harrison Barnes to commit was probably the nail in the coffin for his tenure here. He did bring in some decent talent in Wesley Johnson, Mike Taylor, Diante Garrett, Lucca, Brackins, Scotty Christopherson, Jamie Vanderkeken, Justin Hamilton, and Marquis Gilstrap all had moments as Cyclones. I am guessing that Ejim likely committed to ISU while Greg was still the coach too?
I think the key to being a good manager/coach is adjusting your style to your employees/players.
My criticism of Prohm is he didn’t seem to be able to do any of that. He never really earned the respect of the team. Now I’m not saying that is an easy thing to do but the idea was he would come in and not change much.
No way around it those first couple of years were a failure.
Steve had three good years......two bad......and one which was a total disaster. No way at ISU are 23 and 24 wins in a season considered a "failure".
And it's hard to earn respect when everyone including the players wanted TJ and were pissed to no end Steve was hired. He had no chance outside of multiple final 4's. And then..............maybe.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
I.don't think he was known for defense at SDSU or UNLV. Seems.like this was a surprise to.everyone.
I don't care how it happened, when it did or did not happen but we need to keep him as long as possible.
I think it would be awesome to have basketball Cy as our center court logo.
I wonder if it was a result of the players on his first team. He knew early on that the key to success was NOT going to be the offense.
He knew coming in he wasn't going to have the horses to run a Hoiberg-style offense.
So he adapted to his personnel - something the best coaches can do.
And when he won early, it became easier to recruit the talent we have now.
Speaking of McCay. I was at a football game and he was with Georges and Monte. Georges and Monte were taking pics with everyone that asked and were smiling, happy to do so. McCay was big timing everyone and would not even look at the camera when taking the pic. I looked at my brother and said "McCay will be doing whatever he can to get this much attention in a few years".
A big what if is what would have happened if McDermott learned those lessons before he left Iowa State. It felt like he came to ISU and planned to win in the Big 12 with UNI strategy but higher end talent. The biggest thing I think that to be successful at a mid major, you need to have a team who is full of basketball junkies. Willing to work hard always, follow a plan and be a team.
It does seem like he figured that out a Creighton.
It would be interesting to see what would have happened if he came to Iowa State with that mentality. He got talent to Iowa State that probably could have been really successful. Had he had some early success, Harrison Barnes would have likely been a Cyclone and obviously Doug would have been a clone.
I think he could have had as much success as Fred did if Creighton Greg was the coach who came to Iowa State.
TJ goes a step above, though. He gets higher end talent than a mid major, but insists that they be basketball junkies. I think he would refuse a Top 10 guy if he didn't think he would buy into 100% effort all the time. For example, I don't think Daryn Peterson would be a good fit on a TJ team, but I do think AJ Dybantsa would be a great fit.
