Hallice Cooke on Prohm

[Cydewayz]

These tweets by Hallice and Jameel are dumb.

Prohm wasn't the best coach but if they think TJ wouldn't have punished them for the same things they are living in a fantasy world.

Yeah TJ wasn't a disciplinarian when he was the "best friend" assistant coach but that is because he has to follow the directions of his boss, the head coach who by all accounts was very lax. But now that TJ is the head coach he runs his program totally different with strict rules, and the players follow these rules or they are disciplined.

Yeah, while people would love to hear the "juicy details" of it all, lots of hindsight that we literally cannot predict what would have happened. You nailed it, these guys can say this, but likely they were just thinking TJ would have been status quo to what they were used to....and I think we've seen/heard enough from TJ that my guess is he would have been very similar to how he is now (disciplined, etc).

VERY common with coaching changes for players to rally around an assistant. See it all the time. Makes sense...but also, ultimately, much bigger considerations are needed when hiring a head coach.

 

[isufbcurt]

Yeah, while people would love to hear the "juicy details" of it all, lots of hindsight that we literally cannot predict what would have happened. You nailed it, these guys can say this, but likely they were just thinking TJ would have been status quo to what they were used to....and I think we've seen/heard enough from TJ that my guess is he would have been very similar to how he is now (disciplined, etc).

VERY common with coaching changes for players to rally around an assistant. See it all the time. Makes sense...but also, ultimately, much bigger considerations are needed when hiring a head coach.

Assistant coaches are usually the nice coaches so of course they'd want the coach they get along with to become head coach and I don't fault them for wanting that.

But I think they fail to realize that TJ worked for Fred and had to do things how Fred wanted. So if Fred didn't have strict rules then TJ wasn't going to enforce strict rules. But I think we all know and have seen that as a head coach TJ has rules like a Drill Sergeant, so I think they have a false impression that TJ would have ran things like they were used to under Fred.

 

[madguy30]

Assistant coaches are usually the nice coaches so of course they'd want the coach they get along with to become head coach and I don't fault them for wanting that.

But I think they fail to realize that TJ worked for Fred and had to do things how Fred wanted. So if Fred didn't have strict rules then TJ wasn't going to enforce strict rules. But I think we all know and have seen that as a head coach TJ has rules like a Drill Sergeant, so I think they have a false impression that TJ would have ran things like they were used to under Fred.

I'm not even sure if it's a drill sergeant like screaming and yelling Larry-style but just having high standards and if it doesn't work for someone, they'll get help finding a better fit.

And while I'd guess a few players don't like it, it seems like most players appreciate those standards and have had a good experience in the program, or at least there hasn't been much smoke otherwise at least publically.

 

[isufbcurt]

I'm not even sure if it's a drill sergeant like screaming and yelling Larry-style but just having high standards and if it doesn't work for someone, they'll get help finding a better fit.

And while I'd guess a few players don't like it, it seems like most players appreciate those standards and have had a good experience in the program, or at least there hasn't been much smoke otherwise at least publically.

I didn't mean like yelling and screaming, but more like "you do things this way and that's the only way" and "you aren't late for meetings and workouts".

 

[jdoggivjc]

McDermott was a small town Iowa guy who ran a small town Iowa program at UNI. When he got to ISU, Otz brought him kids from cities and other parts of the country and McDermott just couldn't figure out how to make that type of roster work. Luckily for him he learned his lesson by the time he got to Creighton and finally knew how to build a "big time" program."

I was with you until you said “big time”. McDermott has built a number of good Creighton teams, but I wouldn’t call anything he’s built “big time”.

 

[Cyched]

A big what if is what would have happened if McDermott learned those lessons before he left Iowa State. It felt like he came to ISU and planned to win in the Big 12 with UNI strategy but higher end talent. The biggest thing I think that to be successful at a mid major, you need to have a team who is full of basketball junkies. Willing to work hard always, follow a plan and be a team.

It does seem like he figured that out a Creighton.

It would be interesting to see what would have happened if he came to Iowa State with that mentality. He got talent to Iowa State that probably could have been really successful. Had he had some early success, Harrison Barnes would have likely been a Cyclone and obviously Doug would have been a clone.

I think he could have had as much success as Fred did if Creighton Greg was the coach who came to Iowa State.

TJ goes a step above, though. He gets higher end talent than a mid major, but insists that they be basketball junkies. I think he would refuse a Top 10 guy if he didn't think he would buy into 100% effort all the time. For example, I don't think Daryn Peterson would be a good fit on a TJ team, but I do think AJ Dybantsa would be a great fit.

You bring up Dybantsa vs Peterson, but Kingston Flemings is another one that comes to mind.

He committed to Houston wanting to play for Sampson and the challenge that requires. He would've flourished in Otz's system too.

 

[CYdTracked]

I seem to recall in Prohm's 1st season he tried not to mess with how Fred did things but once we hit a rough patch Steve finally said enough's enough and tried to run things more his way which is when we had the issues with McKay. The rumor at the time was Fred didn't hold him accountable to the same rules that the rest of the players had to follow and Steve finally got fed up with him being late to practices and such and started to enforce rules more strictly. It's easy for those 2 guys to throw shade on X about things years later but like many here have said I doubt TJ would have run things as lax as Fred did. Always felt to me that McKay would slack off at times and never reached his potential. You look at how things run under TJ now and he maxes out everyone's effort. I don't recall a time when I questioned the effort of a player under TJ except maybe Omaha at times as he looked so out of place and unprepared when he was in the game which is why he didn't play much and didn't pan out here.

 

[CYdTracked]

I was with you until you said “big time”. McDermott has built a number of good Creighton teams, but I wouldn’t call anything he’s built “big time”.

He reached the Elite 8 in 2023 which is further than we have been since 2000... They also were 1 point away from a Final 4 in that game

 

[bluestarcyclone]

I guess my question is was it always his intention to coach this style of defense… or was it something he developed at his stops at SDSU and UNLV? And if it was something he developed along the way… is it something he would have been able to develop at ISU using Hoiberg’s roster? These are all questions I start asking in my head when the idea starts getting circled around that we should have just hired TJ back then based on the results he has now, thinking it would have been the same results back then.

If not from his stops at SDSU\UNLV, how much of it is simply because of the lack of talent he started with here and him realizing the only way we were going to win in those first couple years was by having an extremely stingy defense? Great coaches adapt to what they have. Ultimately maybe it just became this whole program's identity because of original necessity, but if TJ is handed the team Hoiberg left maybe that identity never develops and we're simply a continuation of Hoiball.

Not to mention the fact that Kyle Green is such a key component of the defensive side of things, is he looking to move on from UNI back in 2015?

 

[NickTheGreat]

I still think the wheels were gonna come off whether it was Fred or Prohm or whoever. The cupboard was pretty bare after Georges, Monte, etc. Maybe Fred would have recruited better, but there wasn't much in the pipeline.

 

[CYdTracked]

I still think the wheels were gonna come off whether it was Fred or Prohm or whoever. The cupboard was pretty bare after Georges, Monte, etc. Maybe Fred would have recruited better, but there wasn't much in the pipeline.

That was my feeling before Fred left too. We did not put a lot of emphasis on defense and relied on having to beat team with a fast paced and hot shooting offense. If our shots were not falling especially from 3 it could get ugly at times because we did not play that good of defense under Hoiberg. I always wondered just how long Fred could have sustained that kind of play unless he continued to land high level recruits. It was fun to watch when our offense was really clicking though.

 

[VeloClone]

You bring up Dybantsa vs Peterson, but Kingston Flemings is another one that comes to mind.

He committed to Houston wanting to play for Sampson and the challenge that requires. He would've flourished in Otz's system too.

Would he? Otz demands that his players not react to calls and not argue with the officials. Maybe he would have been able to control it under Otz, but that is the antithesis of how Flemings behaves on the court now. He never fouls and is always fouled and he is damned well going to make sure the officials and everyone else know about it when he isn't getting every call he thinks he is entitled to.

There are some great freshmen in this league but there are also at least a couple that are going to fit right in in the NBA in foul baiting and crying about calls/non-calls.

 

[jbhtexas]

Oh snap, now McKay chiming in...


View attachment 169164

"Costed us a final 4"

So he's blaming Prohm for his team losing to UAB?

 

[Cyched]

Would he? Otz demands that his players not react to calls and not argue with the officials. Maybe he would have been able to control it under Otz, but that is the antithesis of how Flemings behaves on the court now. He never fouls and is always fouled and he is damned well going to make sure the officials and everyone else know about it when he isn't getting every call he thinks he is entitled to.

There are some great freshmen in this league but there are also at least a couple that are going to fit right in in the NBA in foul baiting and crying about calls/non-calls.

Maybe? It's pretty clear the way Otz's team deals with the officials is the exception to the rule. Players are competitive and have to go against their instincts on that. But they'll put up with rigid rules if they're winning.

 

[NWICY]

Assistant coaches are usually the nice coaches so of course they'd want the coach they get along with to become head coach and I don't fault them for wanting that.

But I think they fail to realize that TJ worked for Fred and had to do things how Fred wanted. So if Fred didn't have strict rules then TJ wasn't going to enforce strict rules. But I think we all know and have seen that as a head coach TJ has rules like a Drill Sergeant, so I think they have a false impression that TJ would have ran things like they were used to under Fred.

Agree 100% You listen to the new players every yr and the talk is the work that the existing players put in makes you want to do it. I think another way to say it they don't give you the option not to.
TJ with his core group of players do a great job of finding the next group (or thinning them out when they come to visit.)

 

[NWICY]

I seem to recall in Prohm's 1st season he tried not to mess with how Fred did things but once we hit a rough patch Steve finally said enough's enough and tried to run things more his way which is when we had the issues with McKay. The rumor at the time was Fred didn't hold him accountable to the same rules that the rest of the players had to follow and Steve finally got fed up with him being late to practices and such and started to enforce rules more strictly. It's easy for those 2 guys to throw shade on X about things years later but like many here have said I doubt TJ would have run things as lax as Fred did. Always felt to me that McKay would slack off at times and never reached his potential. You look at how things run under TJ now and he maxes out everyone's effort. I don't recall a time when I questioned the effort of a player under TJ except maybe Omaha at times as he looked so out of place and unprepared when he was in the game which is why he didn't play much and didn't pan out here.

I certainly could be wrong but I think even the end of our bench has the same work ethics and commitment as the top part. They don't get the playing time, but I'm guessing if you don't have that same commitment you probably aren't staying to many yrs.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

I seem to recall in Prohm's 1st season he tried not to mess with how Fred did things but once we hit a rough patch Steve finally said enough's enough and tried to run things more his way which is when we had the issues with McKay. The rumor at the time was Fred didn't hold him accountable to the same rules that the rest of the players had to follow and Steve finally got fed up with him being late to practices and such and started to enforce rules more strictly. It's easy for those 2 guys to throw shade on X about things years later but like many here have said I doubt TJ would have run things as lax as Fred did. Always felt to me that McKay would slack off at times and never reached his potential. You look at how things run under TJ now and he maxes out everyone's effort. I don't recall a time when I questioned the effort of a player under TJ except maybe Omaha at times as he looked so out of place and unprepared when he was in the game which is why he didn't play much and didn't pan out here.

You are correct. And Prohm enforcing rules just piled on to the "should of hired TJ" narrative and it snowballed from there not only with the team, but more so on this site.

Steve could have made the final four and the first thread on this site would have been "what went wrong with this season".

 

[CYEATHAWK]

"Costed us a final 4"

So he's blaming Prohm for his team losing to UAB?

Should ask him about 14-15? Everyone was healthy. You had frosted tips. Fred was the coach.

No Jameel, it wasn't Prohm.......it was you.

And "costed"????

 

[BryceC]

Yeah, while people would love to hear the "juicy details" of it all, lots of hindsight that we literally cannot predict what would have happened. You nailed it, these guys can say this, but likely they were just thinking TJ would have been status quo to what they were used to....and I think we've seen/heard enough from TJ that my guess is he would have been very similar to how he is now (disciplined, etc).

VERY common with coaching changes for players to rally around an assistant. See it all the time. Makes sense...but also, ultimately, much bigger considerations are needed when hiring a head coach.

I don’t need the juicy details… honestly Prohm was a bad fit for that roster and for Iowa State. That’s not his fault, he never should have gotten the job.

 

[CycloneVet]

These tweets by Hallice and Jameel are dumb.

Prohm wasn't the best coach but if they think TJ wouldn't have punished them for the same things they are living in a fantasy world.

Yeah TJ wasn't a disciplinarian when he was the "best friend" assistant coach but that is because he has to follow the directions of his boss, the head coach who by all accounts was very lax. But now that TJ is the head coach he runs his program totally different with strict rules, and the players follow these rules or they are disciplined.

Totally agree. Not like Jameel was some sort of saint. Im glad I don’t have random porn vids showing up on twitter from following him.

Hallice Cooke we barely knew you.