It would suck, but it's not his fault. Guys need to stay within the lines for the good of the program, and people who go outside the lines have to be punished for the good of the program.
Wigginton news (until he is back) thread
- Thread starter Dandy
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It would suck, but it's not his fault. Guys need to stay within the lines for the good of the program, and people who go outside the lines have to be punished for the good of the program.
Sorta buried in Randy's post game article he mentions that Wigginton and the training staff is looking at a return around Dec 3.
That seems optimistic considering his cast hasn't been removed yet but we hear a more concrete date after the Maui tourney. From reading the description it does seem to be a ligament issue and not a broke which is the better case scenario.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...what-he-sees-iowa-states-freshmen/1974641002/
"Wigginton missed his second game Monday night, an 85-73 victory against Texas Southern at Hilton Coliseum. He’s resting a strained left foot. The cast will be removed Thursday, and after the Cyclones return from next week’s Thanksgiving tournament in Maui, it’s full speed ahead.
The target date for his return is around the Dec. 3 North Dakota State game, and men’s basketball athletic trainer Vic Miller says that’s realistic."
That seems optimistic considering his cast hasn't been removed yet but we hear a more concrete date after the Maui tourney. From reading the description it does seem to be a ligament issue and not a broke which is the better case scenario.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...what-he-sees-iowa-states-freshmen/1974641002/
"Wigginton missed his second game Monday night, an 85-73 victory against Texas Southern at Hilton Coliseum. He’s resting a strained left foot. The cast will be removed Thursday, and after the Cyclones return from next week’s Thanksgiving tournament in Maui, it’s full speed ahead.
The target date for his return is around the Dec. 3 North Dakota State game, and men’s basketball athletic trainer Vic Miller says that’s realistic."
I do agree that the guys need to be punished for sure, but he left himself no flexibility at all. He could still sit them out the same number of games but stagger the suspensions, or do some games now and some later. I'm not saying he should do it based on the opponent, but just based on number of players he could have available. It just adds extra wear and tear to the remaining players. Babb is coming off an injury, Shayok was visibly gassed last night as he usually only played 20 min/game at UVA, etc.
This is why Manchester United under Sir Alex Ferguson was so great for so long. He never put any man above the club.
I agree with Prohm's decision, but I think there is a point to be made. Since when does Iowa State need to be the morality police of the Big 12 (or the nation)? Kansas is paying people, N. Carolina's whole team is majoring in 'leisure studies'; hell, even Creighton is doing some under the table stuff. Can't we let some weed or a failed class slide? Let's not act like the good of the program is bringing in a bunch of guys that are going to follow every rule.
We don't know if that's all it was to land either guy in trouble. People keep assuming it's known what the reason for the suspensions were. And that's incorrect. We don't know what the crimes were so I don't get why we keep questioning the punishment. Let the guy run his program and sink or swim accordingly.
I was being facetious, but I get your point. I hope they at least got arrested for a month long suspension.
What kind of message does it send to a guy (and the rest of the team) when you base your punishments on your immediate needs? How about the guy that might get a chance to play, or get more minutes, while that other guy is out? Sure, those guys were gassed, and are going to be gassed in Hawaii, but it's nothing that other players haven't gone through before. Didn't the Fizer/Tinsley team go basically 6 deep?
Is ligament issue better than broken bone? I'm not so sure. Depends on the severity of both I think.
There should always be a balance. He was brought here to develop players and give them a chance to suceed, both in life and on the court. I do appreciate that and like Prohm as both a coach and a person. However, he was also brought here to win games. Let's not act like that is not one of a coaches main responsibilities as well.
We're really talking about four games though, correct? Three in Hawaii and then Nebraska Omaha. Assuming that UNO is probably a win either way, you think it's worth compromising to get either Talley or Lard on the floor for those three games? Does that make it likely that we'd be 2-1 vs 1-2? In my opinion, it seems quite possible that our record would be the same either way.
From reading the article, about some foot pain, and then later a pop in the heel... I had something exactly like that and it was a torn plantar facia.
Obviously, I am TOTALLY speculating that this is what LW has. IF it is, here was my experience:
3 days zero weight on it. 30 days in a walking boot (they considered casting). Then physical therapy for a few weeks. It basically has to heal itself, surgery is much more invasive and the outcomes are essentially no better so they rarely do surgery. It didn't really hurt a lot, but you could not really put weight on it and walk normally at all. Took a while to get back confidence in it to jump or push off on it. I would guess it was probably 60 days before I felt confident to go back to TKD and do anything athletic. Obviously LW is younger and will have ideal medical care, and is probably in better overall physical condition than me lol. So hopefully he will heal faster. And maybe it is a less bad tear, mine was pretty bad.
The PT is really easy - they will have him doing lots of calf stretches to take strain off the PF, plus some toe-clenching type stuff, moving up to standing jumps and the like. Not a painful course of PT compared to lots of other injuries.
Obviously, I am TOTALLY speculating that this is what LW has. IF it is, here was my experience:
3 days zero weight on it. 30 days in a walking boot (they considered casting). Then physical therapy for a few weeks. It basically has to heal itself, surgery is much more invasive and the outcomes are essentially no better so they rarely do surgery. It didn't really hurt a lot, but you could not really put weight on it and walk normally at all. Took a while to get back confidence in it to jump or push off on it. I would guess it was probably 60 days before I felt confident to go back to TKD and do anything athletic. Obviously LW is younger and will have ideal medical care, and is probably in better overall physical condition than me lol. So hopefully he will heal faster. And maybe it is a less bad tear, mine was pretty bad.
The PT is really easy - they will have him doing lots of calf stretches to take strain off the PF, plus some toe-clenching type stuff, moving up to standing jumps and the like. Not a painful course of PT compared to lots of other injuries.
I fully support Coach Prohm on this. He clearly is focused on developing what he feels is the right way to do things and run his program. If he based his decisions on the difficulty that might cause him (e.g., potential Ws/Ls), that would send a message to the players that is directly against what he's stating for his program. Having coached at just the youth level, that's clearly the way to do it if you care about what your standards are and expect others to view them as standards. I have no doubt that CP intends to have a very successful program, but he's looking beyond the next game or the next set of games, as opposed to how many fans will naturally view it. Believe in CP!
Geez guys we are 3-0 so far and some people already going off the deep end with some petty stuff. Yes it sucks we are short handed but let's also give Prohm some credit, we have 4 good freshmen he brought in and 2 talented transfers and all 6 are getting some very meaningful minutes right now that will only make this team better once we are back to 100%. I was thinking last night, who goes to the bench other than Haliburton when Lard and Wigginton are back because Babb, Shayok, THT, and Jacobson all have looked good so far. Shayok may very well be the best player on this team and lead us in scoring and that is no knock on Wiggington but Shayok just has more size and ways to create offense right now I think. My guess is either THT or Jacobson is the 6th man depending on the matchup because I can see how having Lard and Jacobson on the floor at the same time could really stretch the offense with Jacobson having 3 point range.
That being said can you imagine just how bad of shape we'd be in last season with those 4 guys out right now? This team is going to have some crazy good depth and create matchup nightmares if it is 100% when Big 12 play starts. We may take a few lumps before then like probably in Maui but let's say everyone but Young is back by 12/3 I'd sure hope we'd still beat Omaha and NDSU before then with this current bunch. Arizona will be tough but if we lose that game we likely play Illinois who is beatable.
Let's just chill out a bit, we knew Lard was going to have to sit a bit for his problems earlier this year considering he had to go to a rehab facility, and you have to trust that Prohm's punishment for Talley probably is deserving too considering he also started last year suspended. I've been watching their body language on the bench and both seem to be into the games and being good teammates so hopefully they come back hungry to play and ready to contribute. If this team can stay healthy and everyone has bought into the team we are going to be in for a treat this season I think and all this petty crap people are whining about right now with the suspensions will be long forgotten.
That being said can you imagine just how bad of shape we'd be in last season with those 4 guys out right now? This team is going to have some crazy good depth and create matchup nightmares if it is 100% when Big 12 play starts. We may take a few lumps before then like probably in Maui but let's say everyone but Young is back by 12/3 I'd sure hope we'd still beat Omaha and NDSU before then with this current bunch. Arizona will be tough but if we lose that game we likely play Illinois who is beatable.
Let's just chill out a bit, we knew Lard was going to have to sit a bit for his problems earlier this year considering he had to go to a rehab facility, and you have to trust that Prohm's punishment for Talley probably is deserving too considering he also started last year suspended. I've been watching their body language on the bench and both seem to be into the games and being good teammates so hopefully they come back hungry to play and ready to contribute. If this team can stay healthy and everyone has bought into the team we are going to be in for a treat this season I think and all this petty crap people are whining about right now with the suspensions will be long forgotten.
I took the point as just not boxing yourself in unnecessarily. What if it’s the last game in November and Someone should rest a nagging injury but doesn’t say anything cause he knows the team is already short handed? Does having Lard and Talley sit out 7 vs 6 games make a big difference for establishing expectations?
It’s like when make a threat as a parent and have to follow through just cause you said it, but wish you’d worded things differently.
Agreed......if the ship starts to sink, then it's Prohm who put the hole in the boat.....he has to start bailing or expect to bail out....I trust Prohm's judgement to know when he is helping the ship stay on course and when it's going to sink.He's the one in charge of what ultimately happens to the team...err go him also!
