Westworld

[ISUChippewa]

My hot take of season 2 is that it sucked

I definitely liked Season 1 better, but I don't think this one necessarily sucked, per se.

I do think it was perhaps more complex than it really needed to be, and I think the showrunners possibly outsmarted themselves.

I do think this season did suffer from a lack of likeable characters; MiB is psychotic evil incarnate, Dolores was consumed by vengeance (not entirely without reason) and tried playing God, Teddy turned bad halfway through the season, and Arnold/Bernard spent the whole season confused about his whole existence (kind of a proxy for the audience). Really, the only likeable characters IMO ended up being Maeve, Stubbs, and maybe Elsie, and the last two were supporting roles at best.

I'll watch Season 3 whenever it comes out, but with reduced expectations.

 

[harimad]

I definitely liked Season 1 better, but I don't think this one necessarily sucked, per se.

I do think it was perhaps more complex than it really needed to be, and I think the showrunners possibly outsmarted themselves.

I do think this season did suffer from a lack of likeable characters; MiB is psychotic evil incarnate, Dolores was consumed by vengeance (not entirely without reason) and tried playing God, Teddy turned bad halfway through the season, and Arnold/Bernard spent the whole season confused about his whole existence (kind of a proxy for the audience). Really, the only likeable characters IMO ended up being Maeve, Stubbs, and maybe Elsie, and the last two were supporting roles at best.

I'll watch Season 3 whenever it comes out, but with reduced expectations.

Is it me, or does it seem like every character on this show takes the "you either die a hero or live long enough to become a villain" trope to the extreme? It feels like every character on this show just needs enough screen time to prove to you what a piece of **** they really are.

I'm sure they'll give Stubbs enough screen time next season to prove that he's a terrible person too.

 

[3GenClone]

There are three robots in the real world... MiB and his fidelity... the robots in the server... the major character robots dead in Westworld but the two pro-robot human engineers (?) can bring them back... Dolores and the purse of black ball memory/info things... so many ways this can go.

I thought this was the torture that his daughter alluded to when she took MiB from Aketcheta back in episode 8? I think this was a tease that MiB/William finally was served his comeuppance.

 

[Dandy]

I thought this was the torture that his daughter alluded to when she took MiB from Aketcheta back in episode 8? I think this was a tease that MiB/William finally was served his comeuppance.

So she figured fidelity out and she's now torturing him? Was the mom killing herself true? At what point does his story change from what was real to what she is making him do? I have so many questions now.

 

[Rural]

Read that the after credit scene takes place far in the future.

You need a scorecard for all the timelines.

 

[srjclone]

I could write a bunch, but its been pretty summed up by what has already been said.

Logan's memory/ a being built to replicate Logan, essentially being the Charon of the Forge, was kinda cool to me, i don't really know why.

I wonder what Delores read enough of to know what she needs to do in those code books of the humans. The black memory balls are a big tool for season 3, as they can essentially be anyone. So who they bring back will be a big part of that.

Simons death was great, he may be the one person who really changed for the better in my eyes. Although that meant he came to a realization he doesn't want to live in this sick world any more.

Overall, during the season, I was really intrigued, but the finale left me wanting/expecting a little bit more.Which probably is playing into my feelings about the overall season.

 

[1100011CS]

Can you still call the show “WestWorld” without having S3 take place there, though?

My head hurts after watching that finale

This was kinda my point. Or are they going to "rebuild' Westworld?

 

[SayMyName]

You need a scorecard for all the timelines.

Stumbled across this post last week, would be interested to see it updated after the finale.

https://amp.thisisinsider.com/westworld-timeline-spoilers-2018-4

For as confusing as the storyline is as shown, seeing it all laid out chronologically also makes my head hurt trying to keep it all straight.

 

[RonBurgundy]

I may have to pass on S3. They made this way too complex and I am mentally exhausted trying to figure it out. Took a lot of the enjoyment out of it.

 

[67CY]

I wouldn’t miss it if it didn’t return next season, and I may give up on it if does

 

[1100011CS]

I wouldn’t miss it if it didn’t return next season, and I may give up on it if does

I may have to pass on S3. They made this way too complex and I am mentally exhausted trying to figure it out. Took a lot of the enjoyment out of it.

I was thinking after the end last night that if they'd just end it there I wouldn't be disappointed.

 

[3GenClone]

So she figured fidelity out and she's now torturing him? Was the mom killing herself true? At what point does his story change from what was real to what she is making him do? I have so many questions now.

I believe that part is true. The big reveal from the post-credits scene was when Host-Emily asks: "what were you hoping to find? To Prove?" and MiB responds: "That no system can tell me what I am. That I have a f@#!ing choice!" We know that, according to Logan (or rather the manifestation of Logan in The Forge) that humanity doesn't have freewill. They are programmed the same as the hosts. I think MiB discovered that fact as well and that explains his deranged actions in WestWorld. MiB killing Maeve and Dolores back in S1 suddenly makes "sense" now when seen in the context of someone trying to act spontaneous rather than acting as vengeful. But what kind of toll does that leave on one's psyche when they leave the sandbox and re-enter the real-world? Suddenly, Ed Harris' portrayal of MiB has another layer, almost sympathetic when he interacts with James Delos/Host, Juliet, and Emily. His park profile viewed without context is frightening to Juliet and Emily, yet what the audience comes to discover is that MiB is just like Young William and hasn't discovered who he is really meant to be.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/25/17500188/westworld-season-2-episode-10-recap-the-passenger-finale

 

[BoxsterCy]

Guy on vox.com capped it for me.

Arrrrrrgh. I don’t know. I have started to think that the best way to talk about Westworld is that I enjoy watching Westworld, but I don’t really like having watched Westworld, because then I start to think about how little of it hangs together for me.

There were great and artfully crafted pieces like the first "fidelity" scenes with Delos and the Ghost Nation episode featuring Zahn McClarnon but the complete season was a mess. Hopefully we are done with Bernard and his monotone blatherings. I was starting to think the script for most episodes was "Jeffrey Wright blathers on in an emotionless monotone while (a) rubbing his temples or while (b) pushing his glasses around on his nose or (c) pauses and actually removes and cleans his glasses." ACTION!

 

[harimad]

I eagerly await S3. There is always any other show on television (e.g., Big Bang Theory) or the CF Cave, where mindless plot and dialog is in endless supply.

This show hits all the right notes for me. Where does biology end and the soul begin? What does it mean to be real?

 

[Dandy]

I believe that part is true. The big reveal from the post-credits scene was when Host-Emily asks: "what were you hoping to find? To Prove?" and MiB responds: "That no system can tell me what I am. That I have a f@#!ing choice!" We know that, according to Logan (or rather the manifestation of Logan in The Forge) that humanity doesn't have freewill. They are programmed the same as the hosts. I think MiB discovered that fact as well and that explains his deranged actions in WestWorld. MiB killing Maeve and Dolores back in S1 suddenly makes "sense" now when seen in the context of someone trying to act spontaneous rather than acting as vengeful. But what kind of toll does that leave on one's psyche when they leave the sandbox and re-enter the real-world? Suddenly, Ed Harris' portrayal of MiB has another layer, almost sympathetic when he interacts with James Delos/Host, Juliet, and Emily. His park profile viewed without context is frightening to Juliet and Emily, yet what the audience comes to discover is that MiB is just like Young William and hasn't discovered who he is really meant to be.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/25/17500188/westworld-season-2-episode-10-recap-the-passenger-finale

Are we sure that was Host-Emily or was that real Emily? Was the MiB now the fidelity experiment and Emily is leading the research? Similar to Delos Sr being the experiment and the MiB leading the research? Like a vicious cycle of generational research on their deceased superior? I'm probably going way off the deep end here.

 

[Dandy]

I eagerly await S3. There is always any other show on television (e.g., Big Bang Theory) or the CF Cave, where mindless plot and dialog is in endless supply.

This show hits all the right notes for me. Where does biology end and the soul begin? What does it mean to be real?

The Ringer (HBO has ownership of the site so can't be too made up) thinks Westworld Season 3 will wait until 2020. This makes sense for HBO. Westworld Season 2 2018, Game of Thrones finale 2019, Westworld 2020. Spread out their major titles. If they end Westworld and obviously GoT what will their main show be?

 

[3GenClone]

Are we sure that was Host-Emily or was that real Emily? Was the MiB now the fidelity experiment and Emily is leading the research? Similar to Delos Sr being the experiment and the MiB leading the research? Like a vicious cycle of generational research on their deceased superior? I'm probably going way off the deep end here.

We can look at this two ways:
1. Real-Emily was in the Park from the Raj (she shot a man to see if he was a host or not) and was real up until the point where she is killed and reveals that she had MiB's park profile. The profile served as proof that only she could be the real Emily as MiB hid the profile inside the book in his home.

2. Of course, Ford was the one that provided MiB with the profile in the first place, so perhaps he made a copy to give to Host-Emily, and it was actually Host-Emily in the park the entire time. If she was a sentient Host, then wouldn't Aketcheta have known back in the episode 8? But he never seemed to be aware that she was a host, and how could she have been sentient without having Aketcheta show her The Maze at some point?

I think you may be reading too far in to the "fidelity experiment." The park is in ruins and Emily says they have run the same test thousands of times, and she noticeably hasn't aged. This is important because MiB told James Delos' Host that they had performed 149 trials since the days of Young William, and now he is MiB, so even if they had perfected the human consciousness in a host body Human Emily would be an old, or at least older, woman.

There really isn't anything for MiB outside of WestWorld anyways. The only remaining humans are the survivors from the Host Uprising, which we know are investors in the park, and I'm sure they would much rather remain silent about the events that occurred in exchange for a hefty settlement. The human survivors are not aware that their brains were scanned in order to make duplicates of themselves.

 

[Dandy]

We can look at this two ways:
1. Real-Emily was in the Park from the Raj (she shot a man to see if he was a host or not) and was real up until the point where she is killed and reveals that she had MiB's park profile. The profile served as proof that only she could be the real Emily as MiB hid the profile inside the book in his home.

2. Of course, Ford was the one that provided MiB with the profile in the first place, so perhaps he made a copy to give to Host-Emily, and it was actually Host-Emily in the park the entire time. If she was a sentient Host, then wouldn't Aketcheta have known back in the episode 8? But he never seemed to be aware that she was a host, and how could she have been sentient without having Aketcheta show her The Maze at some point?

I think you may be reading too far in to the "fidelity experiment." The park is in ruins and Emily says they have run the same test thousands of times, and she noticeably hasn't aged. This is important because MiB told James Delos' Host that they had performed 149 trials since the days of Young William, and now he is MiB, so even if they had perfected the human consciousness in a host body Human Emily would be an old, or at least older, woman.

There really isn't anything for MiB outside of WestWorld anyways. The only remaining humans are the survivors from the Host Uprising, which we know are investors in the park, and I'm sure they would much rather remain silent about the events that occurred in exchange for a hefty settlement. The human survivors are not aware that their brains were scanned in order to make duplicates of themselves.

This paragraph sold me that you're right, it is a host.

 

[harimad]

We can look at this two ways:
1. Real-Emily was in the Park from the Raj (she shot a man to see if he was a host or not) and was real up until the point where she is killed and reveals that she had MiB's park profile. The profile served as proof that only she could be the real Emily as MiB hid the profile inside the book in his home.

2. Of course, Ford was the one that provided MiB with the profile in the first place, so perhaps he made a copy to give to Host-Emily, and it was actually Host-Emily in the park the entire time. If she was a sentient Host, then wouldn't Aketcheta have known back in the episode 8? But he never seemed to be aware that she was a host, and how could she have been sentient without having Aketcheta show her The Maze at some point?

I think you may be reading too far in to the "fidelity experiment." The park is in ruins and Emily says they have run the same test thousands of times, and she noticeably hasn't aged. This is important because MiB told James Delos' Host that they had performed 149 trials since the days of Young William, and now he is MiB, so even if they had perfected the human consciousness in a host body Human Emily would be an old, or at least older, woman.

There really isn't anything for MiB outside of WestWorld anyways. The only remaining humans are the survivors from the Host Uprising, which we know are investors in the park, and I'm sure they would much rather remain silent about the events that occurred in exchange for a hefty settlement. The human survivors are not aware that their brains were scanned in order to make duplicates of themselves.

Something I've always wondered about, but never read anything about-- since they're making host-copies of humans, why are they building copies of their aged selves? If you're building a MiB copy, why wouldn't it be the Jimmi Simpson version?

 

[3GenClone]

Something I've always wondered about, but never read anything about-- since they're making host-copies of humans, why are they building copies of their aged selves? If you're building a MiB copy, why wouldn't it be the Jimmi Simpson version?

Maybe think of it as: "who commissioned the MiB copy"? Maybe it made more sense for Dolores/Ford/Emily to torture Host-MiB, whereas Young William is still naive and not really a threat. Also, what does MiB think of Young William? He's weak and meek compared to the shrewd businessman and outlaw that the MiB is.