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rosshm16 said:
I think I'm on board with this, at least from the freshmen I've seen personally. Fizer was a very different player and the team was bad that year (12-18). I was a little kid when Grayer was a freshman so can't really speak on him. He put the ball in the hoop for sure, although points were probably easier to come by in a Johnny Orr offense than an Otz one.
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Fizer averaged 16 and 7 as a freshman.
Lindell Wigginton averaged 17, 4, and 3 as a freshman.
Curtis Stinson averaged 16, 6, and 5 as a freshman.
Freddy averaged 12, 5, and 3 as a freshman.
Sullivan averaged nearly 12 a game on 45% 3pt shooting (Big 12 FOTY)
Tyrese Hunter averaged 11, 5, and 4 as a freshman (Big 12 FOTY)
Brackins averaged 11 and 5.

He have had some absolutely awesome freshman in our history. Players that were ready physcially and mentally right away. A lot of these guys were heavily focused on by the opponents defense, and we're not surrounded by All-Americans. Fizer was a stud from the jump, on a team that had no other options. Guys like Monte and Jake and Toure had awesome senior mentors to lean on. Guys like Stinson (and Blalock) and Tyrese Hunter did not.

I love Toure. I think we're so lucky to have him and I think there's a real chance we only have him for one year. But I do think it's hyperbolic to call him the best freshman in our history. I'm not remotely ready to call him that. Certainly feels like he might be the best defensive freshman in our history. I would have given that award to Tyrese Hunter before seeing Toure. I think folks forget how awesome Tyrese was during TJ's first year. He had absolutely no PG help at ALL. Even won to send NCAA tournament game. He was an awesome defensive player in TJ's system. A shame he left.
 
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Drew0311 said:
I would say he is the best defender. Not best overall. I would have to step back and think about that for a bit to come up with my list.
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Cr
Cloned4Life said:
Fizer averaged 16 and 7 as a freshman.
Lindell Wigginton averaged 17, 4, and 3 as a freshman.
Curtis Stinson averaged 16, 6, and 5 as a freshman.
Freddy averaged 12, 5, and 3 as a freshman.
Sullivan averaged nearly 12 a game on 45% 3pt shooting (Big 12 FOTY)
Tyrese Hunter averaged 11, 5, and 4 as a freshman (Big 12 FOTY)
Brackins averaged 11 and 5.

He have had some absolutely awesome freshman in our history. Players that were ready physcially and mentally right away. A lot of these guys were heavily focused on by the opponents defense, and we're not surrounded by All-Americans. Fizer was a stud from the jump, on a team that had no other options. Guys like Monte and Jake and Toure had awesome senior mentors to lean on. Guys like Stinson (and Blalock) and Tyrese Hunter did not.

I love Toure. I think we're so lucky to have him and I think there's a real chance we only have him for one year. But I do think it's hyperbolic to call him the best freshman in our history. I'm not remotely ready to call him that. Certainly feels like he might be the best defensive freshman in our history. I would have given that award to Tyrese Hunter before seeing Toure. I think folks forget how awesome Tyrese was during TJ's first year. He had absolutely no PG help at ALL. Even won to send NCAA tournament game. He was an awesome defensive player in TJ's system. A shame he left.
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It doesn't matter. Toure isn't the best freshman defender. He's is the Best defender in college basketball right now! This isn't hard to see. Stop over analyzing
 
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NATEizKING said:
Hello, my name is Nate. Let me introduce you to my friend Joshua Jefferson.
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Ha yeah Joshua Jefferson is currently #2 KenPom player of the year and if the season ended today would be a first team All-American. Lipsey is rolling with a nearly 10:1 assist to turnover ratio (38:4) while also averaging 16.4 ppg. Momcilivic is shooting 54% from three (utterly ridiculous!) and 17.5 ppg. All three of those guys playing at an incredibly high level.

Listen though it is a great argument that we are having. Entering the year everyone thought it would be this team will go as far as Lipsey, Jefferson and Momcilovic will take them. The emergence of Toure and Buchanan have raised expectations tremendously. Heise is playing great as well. His three ball will start to fall at a higher rate. The rest of the rotation will only continue to improve as they gain more experience at this level.
 
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I'll be interested to see how some of our eye-popping stats right now hold up over the rest of the season. The regular season is already ~ one-third over and we've played six major-conference opponents, it's not like we're just putting up big numbers against a bunch of low-majors.
 
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Elite defender, I think if we asked/needed him to score he would be able to average at least double digits, he is athletic and poised. We dont need him to score so he only takes what's there.
 
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rosshm16 said:
I'll be interested to see how some of our eye-popping stats right now hold up over the rest of the season. The regular season is already ~ one-third over and we've played six major-conference opponents, it's not like we're just putting up big numbers against a bunch of low-majors.
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Sure, but they won’t play their first team from a true high major basketball conference until January 2nd!
 
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iastatefan1 said:
Elite defender, I think if we asked/needed him to score he would be able to average at least double digits, he is athletic and poised. We dont need him to score so he only takes what's there.
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Agree. How many points a freshman guard scores is going to vary wildly based on what is expected of him in the offense. He's averaging 11.5 mostly off run-outs and free throws with an occasional wide open three. he doesn't even hunt his shot and we run essentially zero action for him. Everything is within the flow of the offense. I'm struggling to even recall cases where he's forced a shot.

There is no question Jefferson and Milan are focal points of our offense. Lipsey scoring a career high I think largely in part because he can be off the ball more and not bringing the ball up the court every time. You could even argue our offense is set up to get Buchanan easy looks inside more than we're asking Toure to score for us.

He's scoring 11.5 a game on 56% shooting overall and almost 40% from three. He's averaging less than 8 shots a game.

Take someone like Stinson who took 14 shots a game his freshman year, shot under 50% overall, unswe 70% from the line, and 28% from 3. Played over 35 minutes a game and was also a turnover machine. Sure, he scored more points.

Similar with Wiggington. Way more shots. Terrible FG% (41% overall). More turnovers than assists. Not even half the steals of Toure. Sure as f**k wasn't guarding the other teams' best guard/wing player.
 
twincyties said:
Agree. How many points a freshman guard scores is going to vary wildly based on what is expected of him in the offense. He's averaging 11.5 mostly off run-outs and free throws with an occasional wide open three. he doesn't even hunt his shot and we run essentially zero action for him. Everything is within the flow of the offense. I'm struggling to even recall cases where he's forced a shot.

There is no question Jefferson and Milan are focal points of our offense. Lipsey scoring a career high I think largely in part because he can be off the ball more and not bringing the ball up the court every time. You could even argue our offense is set up to get Buchanan easy looks inside more than we're asking Toure to score for us.

He's scoring 11.5 a game on 56% shooting overall and almost 40% from three. He's averaging less than 8 shots a game.

Take someone like Stinson who took 14 shots a game his freshman year, shot under 50% overall, unswe 70% from the line, and 28% from 3. Played over 35 minutes a game and was also a turnover machine. Sure, he scored more points.

Similar with Wiggington. Way more shots. Terrible FG% (41% overall). More turnovers than assists. Not even half the steals of Toure. Sure as f**k wasn't guarding the other teams' best guard/wing player.
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Didn't realize he was already averaging double digits because he does it kind of quietly. Think it'll drop as we go into conference play, but I'm confident he Would average 15 if we doubled his shots, but why would we. Efficient players scoring depends a lot on what we expect of them. He's the best freshman through the non con I've seen. Second best was Georges in my memory, but I'm young.
 
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iastatefan1 said:
Elite defender, I think if we asked/needed him to score he would be able to average at least double digits, he is athletic and poised. We dont need him to score so he only takes what's there.
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Otz basically said as much - he's been very consistent, but it doesn't necessarily show up the same way in the box score from game to game.

In the 7 games with Lipsey he's averaged: 25 minutes, 9 ppg and 1.6 assists (7-12FTs)

In the 3 games without Lipsey he averaged: 30 minutes, 17.3 ppg and 4.3 assists (13-15FTs)
 
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bawbie said:
Otz basically said as much - he's been very consistent, but it doesn't necessarily show up the same way in the box score from game to game.

In the 7 games with Lipsey he's averaged: 25 minutes, 9 ppg and 1.6 assists (7-12FTs)

In the 3 games without Lipsey he averaged: 30 minutes, 17.3 ppg and 4.3 assists (13-15FTs)
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Exactly this.

There are also several plays per game he forces a turnover in a way that he doesn't get credit for in the boxscore. Stats matter, but they only tell so much of the story.
 
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rosshm16 said:
Fizer averaged 14.9 points, that's a pretty big round-up to 16.
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That same poster thinks ISU football should beat decent/good teams because they were bad several years ago, but ISU being decent recently shouldn't be compared to their overall history.

So...
 
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