LW is working hard this year to demonstrate he can play the point guard position in the NBA. So far, he has shown a bit of glimmer but has not taken the step he had hoped for. There were a lot of NBA scouts at last nights game. It was not the display of talent he was working for. I hope he can make it to the pros but he is running out of time (this year).
Time to Start Wigg
- Thread starter Psiclone
- Start date
All first class morons.
you would transfer because 10 fans on facebook made dumbass comments while you have 12000 cheering for you every night?
Logically everyone knows that is true. But I’m guessing that when you are insulted, you don’t always ignore it.
I said my comment was dramatic so no, I wouldn’t leave because of that. Doesn’t mean I’m not annoyed or disappointed by it though. It wouldn’t make me leave but it would leave me extremely motivated to shut them up.
That's not what PER is either in the context of this discussion. PER is a Hollinger rating that takes major stat categories into account but I think it has a bias toward volume. Per 40s are also close to useless to me because efficiency of usage isn't taken into account. So, in this case, in your comparison of MS and LW, the reason for those things to look like they do is that they both have very high usage. Usage is the amount of team possessions where the given player ends the possession with a shot or a turnover. So, for Lindell, his usage is high but it's not because of the turnovers, it's because of the shots. He's ending possessions in shots.
I haven't even formulated a defense of Lindell either. I've just stated that outside of shooting, he's done things better. As I've said before, the problem is that he's not shooting as well and that's what made him effective last year.
You keep trying to tell anyone who challenges you that essentially the stats we using are worthless. So show us something then that backs your opinions up so this isn't such a 1 sided debate. As soon as someone throws some comparisons out there you just seem to dismiss them and claim "other" statistics are more in the context of the discussion. You have yet to provide any such comparisons to the debate yet that backs your claims that he is doing better than those who are starting... About the only case you've made so far is he turns it over less than Shayok and about as much as THT does and that's it. That too is a result of volume because he handles the ball more than just about anyone on the team. It's an area he needs to work on no doubt but he's dramatically better in just about every other category than everyone on the team.
I'm not the only one so far who has pointed out flaws in your analysis so far with some actual facts and numbers to back them up, back your talk up with something of substance you can prove and not just throw out there as a hypothetical by using the "volume/usage" argument.
You must lack reading comprehension because he isn't saying what you are accusing him of saying.
I was in the OP last night with a whopping 15 people in the restaurant at 3 tables. It got really annoying hearing almost every person in there yelling to take him out. I have to agree he got way more minutes than I would've given him last night. But to think that the majority of fans are "supporting" him right now seems to be a stretch.
Personally after doing the side by side of THT I did above I think LW should start and see if things improve. It can't hurt.
I'm making the assumption you don't have a Kenpom subscription so the numbers I point out will be worthless. I make that assumption because you aren't even understanding that the data that I've pointed out is based on percentage data, not volume. I'm not going to give you kenpom data. Call me a prude or whatever you want. I will outline some basics on how his system works. It's flawed just like any other system but I find it to be as good as we have in terms of looking at all things on the offensive side of the court. There is little in the way of defense. Synergy would be much better for that and it could tell some real stories, however when I looked into the subscription I saw that I could afford a lot of golf clubs for that cost and that would be more useful for me. Synergy is great because you can mess with lineups and get team performance based on adding/subtracting players. Great stuff.
Anyway, on the TO thing. Kenpoms TO number is the percentage of player possessions (sum shots made, shots missed and rebounded by the other team, and turnovers) that end in a turnover. That means the player accounts for the turnover. Wiugginton is pretty much with Jacobson which is higher than only THT and Haliburton. Now, there's a bit of a flaw in all stats regarding TOs because as we've seen, some of the shots THT and WIgginton will take are very low percentage so while LW, for instance doesn't see a huge TO rate, his shooting percentage is bad along with THTs. They both have low TO%s but we could assume, without even watching, that their shot selection isn't that great because their TS is the worst of those playing major minutes by a very long ways. Compare that to Haliburton who has a low TO% but also an enormous True Shooting% and you can tell TH is probably a really low usage guy without even seeing his usage which is that of no guard we've had here in about forever. It's less than freshman Solomon Young, for reference. It's really kind of unheard of but if his usage were to increase, it would likely drag down some other things as he became more aggressive.
It's hard to explain everything in Kenpom.
All I can say is, Phog Allen Fieldhouse seems like an odd place to expect Lindell to shoot himself out of a slump. After watching his body language last night, his poor shooting, bad passing, clumsy dribble-driving etc. one thing is clear to me:
He wasn't ready to come back yet. A lot of people seem to think that physically he is fine, but the battle is between his ears. I disagree. He's playing like someone who is a step ahead mentally of where his body can physically get him to.
Solomon knew his body and shut it down. Lindell, in my opinion, either should have waited a bit longer to come back, or done the same. In his current form, he is not helping thr team right now. I hope he figures it out, but I didn't like seeing him yell at Haliburton last night following the errant pass to the corner on the fast break. Should Tyrese have been there? Yes. But Lindell shouldn't have thrown the ball to no man's land. Would have been nice to see him share the blame. But what I saw was frustration, a talented player playing like he's running out of time, berating a freshman (he himself, has played just a handful more games at this point).
My advice: Shut him down. Even if you can't salvage a red shirt for him.Let him come back 100% next year, minus Shayok, minus Babb. Wigginton/Haliburton/Horton-Tucker with a year experience under their belts would be fun to watch. Lindell, this year, if he's going to play, needs to just relax and let the game come to him. It's almost February. He won't be climbing up any draft boards any time soon, barring more Cyclone wins and a deep run into the NCAA's
He wasn't ready to come back yet. A lot of people seem to think that physically he is fine, but the battle is between his ears. I disagree. He's playing like someone who is a step ahead mentally of where his body can physically get him to.
Solomon knew his body and shut it down. Lindell, in my opinion, either should have waited a bit longer to come back, or done the same. In his current form, he is not helping thr team right now. I hope he figures it out, but I didn't like seeing him yell at Haliburton last night following the errant pass to the corner on the fast break. Should Tyrese have been there? Yes. But Lindell shouldn't have thrown the ball to no man's land. Would have been nice to see him share the blame. But what I saw was frustration, a talented player playing like he's running out of time, berating a freshman (he himself, has played just a handful more games at this point).
My advice: Shut him down. Even if you can't salvage a red shirt for him.Let him come back 100% next year, minus Shayok, minus Babb. Wigginton/Haliburton/Horton-Tucker with a year experience under their belts would be fun to watch. Lindell, this year, if he's going to play, needs to just relax and let the game come to him. It's almost February. He won't be climbing up any draft boards any time soon, barring more Cyclone wins and a deep run into the NCAA's
Re-watched the game last night. After a second time through Im not the least bit worried about this team and definitely not worried about Wigginton. A couple thoughts:
-Lindell made a number of great passes in the game, especially in that first half.
-Tough shooting night for him, however all those 3's he missed in the first half I want him shooting 100% of the time. His toughest shot was actually the 3 that he made late.
-THT took a number of tougher and ill-advised shots, alot lower percentage than Lindell but nobody is making a big deal about those because he was hot.
-A couple of those drives were ugly and he was out of control but another one he got fouled on but nothing was called.
-That late turnover was part TH's fault for not continuing into his spot in the corner. You can see NWB trying to coach him after the play.
-The play where Lindell made a nice cut towards the basketball and missed a point blank shot he got completely hacked but no call.
-Without Young, Lard, or Conditt in the game we have no rim protector. This game reminded me of 2016-2017, even one post player that could provided a little resistance on those layups and we could have easily won.
-Texas Tech did the exact same thing, getting to the rim for easy layups, they missed alot of bunnies was the difference. I dont know why everyone is shocked that Kansas did the exact same thing.
-Getting really tired of the ticky-tack fouls on Lard, the refs have to have a short whistle with him for some reason.
Lindell is fine, and I dont get why people were ripping into him on Facbook and on here, if you look at the entire game objectively he just had a rough shooting night, it happens, Shayok had a terrible game against KSU and I dont remember anyone calling for his benching.
-Lindell made a number of great passes in the game, especially in that first half.
-Tough shooting night for him, however all those 3's he missed in the first half I want him shooting 100% of the time. His toughest shot was actually the 3 that he made late.
-THT took a number of tougher and ill-advised shots, alot lower percentage than Lindell but nobody is making a big deal about those because he was hot.
-A couple of those drives were ugly and he was out of control but another one he got fouled on but nothing was called.
-That late turnover was part TH's fault for not continuing into his spot in the corner. You can see NWB trying to coach him after the play.
-The play where Lindell made a nice cut towards the basketball and missed a point blank shot he got completely hacked but no call.
-Without Young, Lard, or Conditt in the game we have no rim protector. This game reminded me of 2016-2017, even one post player that could provided a little resistance on those layups and we could have easily won.
-Texas Tech did the exact same thing, getting to the rim for easy layups, they missed alot of bunnies was the difference. I dont know why everyone is shocked that Kansas did the exact same thing.
-Getting really tired of the ticky-tack fouls on Lard, the refs have to have a short whistle with him for some reason.
Lindell is fine, and I dont get why people were ripping into him on Facbook and on here, if you look at the entire game objectively he just had a rough shooting night, it happens, Shayok had a terrible game against KSU and I dont remember anyone calling for his benching.
Thinking Lindell should shut it down for the rest of the season and that he would come back is such a bad take IMO.
He does not play like someone who is physically injured. He still looks explosive to me. Bottom line is he’s just not making shots consistently yet.
Also, shutting Wigginton down would mean we are like 6 deep and would most likely mean his Cyclone career is over. I think he goes pro no matter what after this season.
By no means am I an NBA scout, but what have you seen from him that you would want if you're an NBA GM? He jumps really high for being 6'2''? He sometimes makes really sweet "no,no,no...yes!" passes? I know I'm toeing a line here, but I just don't see him going to the NBA this year, I'll insert a caveat that there is enough time left in the season for him to redeem himself. But if the season ended today, no.
I don’t think he’s NBA ready. I think he is an extremely talented player that has a lot to improve on but I don’t think that will stop him from chasing his dreams after this year. He decided to come back once and so far, it hasn’t helped him. I think if he has to make that decision again, he might just go this time to avoid the same mistake. I don’t think him returning was a mistake but we don’t know how he views it.
I'm not trying to be argumentative but I fail to see how he could make it in the NBA based on his first year and a half in Ames. He's an elite athlete but he's sloppy with the ball and makes too many mental mistakes. I think he's a really good player and am really glad he's a Cyclone but with the trouble Monte and Georges had landing on an NBA roster he's not close to those guys basketball wise at this point in time. IMO.
Again, I don’t disagree but I have a feeling he’d rather play in the G-League than return to college.
