This is why Prohm must go........

[EarthIsMan]

Year 4 of Prohm era: Iowa State at 82 in NET rankings, just ahead of South Dakota. Zero wins in NCAA Tourney vs Power 6 teams. 1-3 vs Iowa. Nice work with the program, coach.

Actually, year 4 of the Prohm era was #18 NET, #15 KenPom, #16 Barttorvik, and #15 Sagarin.

Also, since you appear to be an Iowa fan, Iowa hasn't had a power 6 win in the NCAA tourney since 1999 when Tom Davis's team beat Arkansas. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This is Prohm's 5th year.....and the 2020 season is far from over. Further, early season NET is pretty meaningless as it is not predictive. Unless, you are riding hard on Duquense, Liberty, and UNI....

 

[kingcy]

You guys can downplay the Big 12 Tournament if you want. I'd take a regular season title or a Sweet 16 over it, but to call it exhibition games? Straight up stupid.

This. The memories and experiences from winning that will last a lifetime. Part of the reason winning it is good is we have learned anything can happen in the NCAA tourney, when that anything happens winning in KC gives that team an amazing memory.

 

[ISUChippewa]

I don't know.....are you an Iowa State fan or not? Because why is this........

There are posters who are truly Iowa State fans...and then there are fosters who are really just huge Fred fans.

rubbing your face?

 

[NoCreativity]

Sigmapolis, keep doing you. Putting all these people in their place with your analytics is so much fun to watch.

He's obviously never played competitive sports because he doesn't understand the difference between starting and coming off the bench.

 

[NoCreativity]

He didn't create that gap in high school recruiting.

He was hired June 8th, 2015, that season started November 10th, 2017. Two and a half years is more than enough time to get a roster constructed in the age of one&dones and transfers.

This isnt football where you have over 80 scholarships, you have 7-10 players that will actually play. This makes what Campbell has done even that much more impressive and what Prohm did that year even that much more pathetic.

 

[ISUChippewa]

One of the ugliest football teams I have ever seen was the 2015-2016 Denver Broncos. Their games were ugly as sin, but somehow they won a Super Bowl.

Ohio State wanted that brawling Big East style and they got it.

We were not a team with the size or muscle last year to win when the refs swallowed their whistles. We were a finesse team, and Ohio State exploited that.

Upsets happen -- losing to Ohio State was unfortunate but not program-defining. I doubt anybody around the country thinks 11 > 6 was a huge deal like we do.

Now, UAB, 14 > 3, that is another story. That makes you infamous.



He played more minutes than THT did last year in the Big 12. He played 22, 29, 29, and 29 minutes in our four postseason games last season.

He was #4 in minutes on the team after Nick, TH, and Shayok.

I have no evidence of this, but it feels like he was in at the end of games more.

I would have probably started LW over THT at some point last year, but you're acting like playing him 25-30 minutes per night was somehow "not using" him.

Your point that Prohm somehow benched him or did not use him is farcical. Pick a different hill to die on -- most your points are bad, but this one is awful.



Shayok was the best player on the floor for most games.

View attachment 69292

Shayok...

-- 3.3 higher ORTG
-- 3% higher TS%
-- five more points per game

...if we are judging them against each other as ball-dominant scorers. My eye test said that Shayok was a way better and more flexible defender, as well.

Your credibility is suspect when you make obvious errors like this one. Wigginton was not even the best high-volume chucker on his own team.

I really don't get how the loss to Ohio State last season has become the single worst NCAA tournament loss in Iowa State basketball history (actually, I think I get it, but more on that later).

Any NCAA tournament loss is a disappointing one, especially when your team is the higher seed and favored to win.

But 11 over 6 upsets are almost as common as the vaunted 12 over 5 upsets when you look at the numbers. When all of the 6 seeds won their games before we even tipped off I got a bad feeling about it; had Belmont or Saint Mary's not fallen just short against Maryland and Villanova respectively I would have felt better about our chances, but Ohio State was just a tough matchup for us and arguably had more pure talent than any other 6 seed (although the Windler kid for Belmont is a stud). We've certainly seen how good Ohio State is this season with some of those same players returning, so contrary to the posters who would light Prohm on fire if they could, it's not the worst loss in school history.

If we had gotten past OSU, I honestly don't know if we could have beaten Houston in the next round. That was a damn good team that really should have and could have beaten Kentucky in their Sweet Sixteen team if not for some really clutch shooting by Kentucky late in that game.

Off the top of my head, I can think of at least 3 or 4 losses in the NCAA tournament that were more disappointing than last year; naturally UAB and Hampton come to mind first and foremost, but losing to Purdue in that 2nd round game brought me to tears. I even think losing to UCONN back in 2014 was more disappointing to me than last year; I know UCONN went on to win the whole damn thing, so in retrospect it's not a bad loss, but we were the higher seed, and UCONN really pretty much controlled that game from start to finish.

There is no rational or logical argument for why last season's loss is being made out to be as bad and program-altering as it is by some compared to the other tournament losses this program has had, but when you've made up your mind to hate the coach from the moment he was hired (He's not Fred!!!!) and denigrate any losses (and wins) he's had, that's what you do, I suppose.

 

[ISUChippewa]

He was hired June 8th, 2015, that season started November 10th, 2017. Two and a half years is more than enough time to get a roster constructed in the age of one&dones and transfers.

This isnt football where you have over 80 scholarships, you have 7-10 players that will actually play. This makes what Campbell has done even that much more impressive and what Prohm did that year even that much more pathetic.

You hate him. You have always hated him. You will always hate him. Stop insulting our intelligence by pretending otherwise.

 

[IASTATE07]

He was hired June 8th, 2015, that season started November 10th, 2017. Two and a half years is more than enough time to get a roster constructed in the age of one&dones and transfers.

This isnt football where you have over 80 scholarships, you have 7-10 players that will actually play. This makes what Campbell has done even that much more impressive and what Prohm did that year even that much more pathetic.

You make it sound so easy.

 

[NoCreativity]

You make it sound so easy.

Im not saying its easy at all, but its not as hard as everyone is making it out to be either. Hoiberg deserves some of the blame no doubt, but acting like Prohm had a month to put together a competent Big 12 roster is a mistake.

 

[Statefan10]

I really don't get how the loss to Ohio State last season has become the single worst NCAA tournament loss in Iowa State basketball history (actually, I think I get it, but more on that later).

Any NCAA tournament loss is a disappointing one, especially when your team is the higher seed and favored to win.

But 11 over 6 upsets are almost as common as the vaunted 12 over 5 upsets when you look at the numbers. When all of the 6 seeds won their games before we even tipped off I got a bad feeling about it; had Belmont or Saint Mary's not fallen just short against Maryland and Villanova respectively I would have felt better about our chances, but Ohio State was just a tough matchup for us and arguably had more pure talent than any other 6 seed (although the Windler kid for Belmont is a stud). We've certainly seen how good Ohio State is this season with some of those same players returning, so contrary to the posters who would light Prohm on fire if they could, it's not the worst loss in school history.

If we had gotten past OSU, I honestly don't know if we could have beaten Houston in the next round. That was a damn good team that really should have and could have beaten Kentucky in their Sweet Sixteen team if not for some really clutch shooting by Kentucky late in that game.

Off the top of my head, I can think of at least 3 or 4 losses in the NCAA tournament that were more disappointing than last year; naturally UAB and Hampton come to mind first and foremost, but losing to Purdue in that 2nd round game brought me to tears. I even think losing to UCONN back in 2014 was more disappointing to me than last year; I know UCONN went on to win the whole damn thing, so in retrospect it's not a bad loss, but we were the higher seed, and UCONN really pretty much controlled that game from start to finish.

There is no rational or logical argument for why last season's loss is being made out to be as bad and program-altering as it is by some compared to the other tournament losses this program has had, but when you've made up your mind to hate the coach from the moment he was hired (He's not Fred!!!!) and denigrate any losses (and wins) he's had, that's what you do, I suppose.

I don't think it's personal to Prohm.. I think the people that dislike him would be disliking anyone else if they were not exceeding what Fred did at Iowa State.

 

[Statefan10]

Im not saying its easy at all, but its not as hard as everyone is making it out to be either. Hoiberg deserves some of the blame no doubt, but acting like Prohm had a month to put together a competent Big 12 roster is a mistake.

Prohm had about 2 months to put together a team before he and the team left for Spain. 3 guys graduated and 3 guys transferred in total, one of the being Dorsey-Walker halfway through the year.. Deonte and Hallice were already sitting out. Fred left no high school recruits for Prohm, so Prohm had to fill 4 spots on the fly and very very late into the recruiting cycle. Saying Prohm was unsuccessful at doing that would be fair.. But to say it's an easy thing to do would be extremely unfair.

 

[cyclones500]

But 11 over 6 upsets are almost as common as the vaunted 12 over 5 upsets when you look at the numbers.

I've wanted to posted something similar about the 11-over-6, but had chosen to stay to the side of the fray and just witness the sparring as a bystander. But I'll add a comment in agreement to your post.

Using an 11-6 upset as some kind of damning proof how bad a season was ignores tournament history & trends. There's a an 11 over 6 about once a year on average, it happens 2 of 4 times roughly 1 of 3 seasons.

You can still criticize a coach's performance without resorting to calling a fairly common 1st round upset "the worst loss ever," or some such. ISU didn't play well, for sure, and was too content playing a style of game that favored Ohio State. That's fair game for critique. Just don't expect me to believe 6 seeds don't lose opening-round games.

 

[moores2]

He's obviously never played competitive sports because he doesn't understand the difference between starting and coming off the bench.

lol, troll. Statistical analysis by people who have never played the sport has made a massive impact on sports around the country. Look at baseball. Basketball can be the same way.

Why do you think the deep 2 shot has been basically eliminated from the game?

 

[NoCreativity]

lol, troll. Statistical analysis by people who have never played the sport has made a massive impact on sports around the country. Look at baseball. Basketball can be the same way.

Why do you think the deep 2 shot has been basically eliminated from the game?

Im a stats guy myself, but I stand by my point, this guy has never played competitive sports at a high level. If he did he would understand the psychological dynamic of coming off the bench when you know you are a better and more experienced player.

 

[moores2]

Im a stats guy myself, but I stand by my point, this guy has never played competitive sports at a high level. If he did he would understand the psychological dynamic of coming off the bench when you know you are a better and more experienced player.

There are 2 outcomes when you are benched for a player you don't think is better than you. One (that you reference) is you pout and let it reflect in your game. The other is you do something about it and show them they made a mistake. Lindell did the first.

 

[Statefan10]

lol, troll. Statistical analysis by people who have never played the sport has made a massive impact on sports around the country. Look at baseball. Basketball can be the same way.

Why do you think the deep 2 shot has been basically eliminated from the game?

Hey. Do not knock NWB's bread and butter.

 

[ISUChippewa]

I've wanted to posted something similar about the 11-over-6, but had chosen to stay to the side of the fray and just witness the sparring as a bystander. But I'll add a comment in agreement to your post.

Using an 11-6 upset as some kind of damning proof how bad a season was ignores tournament history & trends. There's a an 11 over 6 about once a year on average, it happens 2 of 4 times roughly 1 of 3 seasons.

You can still criticize a coach's performance without resorting to calling a fairly common 1st round upset "the worst loss ever," or some such. ISU didn't play well, for sure, and was too content playing a style of game that favored Ohio State. That's fair game for critique. Just don't expect me to believe 6 seeds don't lose opening-round games.

Completely agree with this. Also, the fact that Ohio State is a fellow Power 5 conference team, and, it could be argued, may have underachieved a bit in the regular season before playing well enough to get a first round win, colors things in even more IMO.

We were the better team, on paper at least, and we were the higher seed and favored to win for some good reasons, but I think all of the metrics websites (KenPom, Barttovik, etc, even ESPN) all still gave us between a 65-70% chance to win the game. Those are hardly overwhelming odds. Power conference teams battling each other on a neutral court can often result in a situation of being anyone's game, regardless of seeds or records. Look at Oregon-Wisconsin last year in the tournament for example; Oregon, a 12 seed ("worse" than Ohio State) absolutely kicked Wisconsin's (a 5 seed, "better" than ISU) a$$ by 18 points.

 

[NoCreativity]

There are 2 outcomes when you are benched for a player you don't think is better than you. One (that you reference) is you pout and let it reflect in your game. The other is you do something about it and show them they made a mistake. Lindell did the first.

He didnt get benched, he was the starter at the beginning of the season, got injured, then was forced to come off the bench right when he came back. Getting benched would be getting put right back in the starting lineup when hes healthy, sucking, then another player taking your starting job because they are better. Thats not what happened at all.

 

[Statefan10]

He didnt get benched, he was the starter at the beginning of the season, got injured, then was forced to come off the bench right when he came back. Getting benched would be getting put right back in the starting lineup when hes healthy, sucking, then another player taking your starting job because they are better. Thats not what happened at all.

I think looking back, it was a tough situation for Prohm to put Lindell in the starting lineup after his injury.. We were playing pretty well at the time and he didn't want to throw a wrench into everything. By not starting Lindell, it created drama. Had he started Lindell, it probably would've led to some drama as well because who do you not start? Tyrese? THT?

 

[CYEATHAWK]

He's obviously never played competitive sports because he doesn't understand the difference between starting and coming off the bench.

This from last season..........

Is it really? Have you ever played basketball? Probably not, but if you ever did you would understand it demands superior conditioning to just about any other sport.

Give it up.