This is why Prohm must go........

[CyCloned]

When we play against bigger teams that want to slow it down and muck it up, Prohm is completely lost and clueless on what to do? Or if our shots aren't falling, Prohm has no solution.[/QUOTE]

This team does not respond well to physical play, and tOSU was beating the living crab out of anyone that dared to drive.

 

[jsb]

Is this what he has said privately?

That’s whats been implied over and over again.

Let’s just put it this way, had Lindell started all season he’d still be leaving no matter what.

 

[Cdiedrick]

First of all, Prohm coached this team terribly all year long.

People got all excited because we won the Big 12 Tourney but we should have won the Big 12 Tourney. (We had the best roster in the Big 12)

Finishing 9-9 in conference play was really embarrassing as the Clones clearly should have won the league.

Elite teams play two big men....it's just the way it is.....look at KU, UK, UNC, Duke, etc.......

Why he didn't start a line-up of Wigginton, Shayok, Horton-Tucker, Lard, and Jacobsen is ridiculous.....people wondering why we kept getting out-rebounded and then you see four guards out there and it's not real tough.....rotating Weiler-Babb and Haliburton with the three other guards would have worked fine but instead he put the team in a bad situation at all times with NEVER having a second big on the floor.....that is a joke.

Sure, you can go to four guards at times but when you're in a big boys league you have to compete at a big boy level.....Prohm doesn't do that.

Then we once again we got to watch "stand and watch basketball" tonight as he allowed them to spend much of the first half (and many games during the regular season) with four guys on the perimeter just standing and then shooting a three-pointer with only ONE guy underneath to rebound.....we were extremely easy to to guard because our coaching was terrible....we have GREAT players that can drive to the basket in Shayok, Horton-Tucker, and Wigginton who could have been drawing fouls all first half, drawing defense for a miss and easy offensive rebound, or creating wide-open three's but no.....Steve allowed them to stand on the perimeter and shoot NBA three's......live by it and die by it.........

Then let's talk about our defense........Ohio State has a completely mediocre team without Wesson (they lost by 19 without him against Northwestern).....he's clearly their only big-time player......a good coach would double team him every time he touched it and would have forced the rest of the OSU team to beat us......not Steve.....that was just too logical of a thing to do......so he just let Wesson toy with our bigs for most of the game.......it's easy stuff that he just decided not to do.......

If people think this is just reactionary to a tough tourney loss, you don't understand the game......he's the head coach who allowed his team to have problems that led to a 9-9 Big 12 record which is downright embarrassing and now he just led us to a horrific loss to a terrible Ohio State team......if you think he's the guy to lead this program to big-time tourney runs you are wrong.......in fact he took over a program that was loaded with talent and he went to the Sweet 16 with Fred's team......then went to the round of 32, then no tourney, then now we are out in the round of 64.........it's been downhill and in four years he has a 35-37 record in Big 12 league play......that's brutal......ISU has been to the tourney 7 of 8 years but if they want to become an elite program which I believe they can become, they need a new leader.....it's real simple.

Quit crying, we could get rid of Prohm and end up with another McDermott

 

[deadeyededric]

Steve Prohm needs to stay, but that doesn't mean that there aren't improvements he can make.

He makes millions of dollars and has a sexxy ass wife. I recommend he keeps doing what has worked for him, or are you talking about basketball?

 

[CTTB78]

That’s whats been implied over and over again.

Let’s just put it this way, had Lindell started all season he’d still be leaving no matter what.

I would say it would be more likely that he would leave if he did start all season.
I'm just hoping he views this season was sub-par by his standards and he's back to show what he can really do.

 

[ThatllDoCy]

This team does not respond well to physical play, and tOSU was beating the living crab out of anyone that dared to drive.[/QUOTE]

This is the best defensive team we’ve had in years. I mean, Babb was a great defender, but under Fred defense was not a strong point, but we had George’s Niang to stretch the defense and knock down threes.

The thing is, we make a few shots we win the game.

I’ve felt that Lindell needed to on the floor and play two guard all year, but that’s not his position, and I am sure Prohm put out his best team.

We needed a shooter, and just did not have one.

I get the Prohm hate, because Coaches have responsibility, but this was a piecemeal team of transfers and freshman that had a ton of adversity. I can’t see it as a coaching failure. It’s not like it was a Senior laden team that had years together.

 

[jsb]

I would say it would be more likely that he would leave if he did start all season.
I'm just hoping he views this season was sub-par by his standards and he's back to show what he can really do.

I’m just saying that it would be prohms best recruiting if he did come back.

 

[ThatllDoCy]

I would say it would be more likely that he would leave if he did start all season.
I'm just hoping he views this season was sub-par by his standards and he's back to show what he can really do.

I saw flashes of great PG play from Lindell. I’d think a year running the team would really help him, unless his team feels he will develop better in the NBA D League.

Didn’t look like a draft pick to me, talented enough, but still raw.

 

[NebraskaCyclone]

I don't know if he needs to go or not. After the game I was all about go get Fred back now!

In either case, look how far we've come as a program. Johnny Orr, who we all love, probably could have coached Iowa State until death. We loved those teams and cheered hard for them and never second-guessed Coach. But he never won a Big 8 tournament, made it to the Sweet 16 once, never won on the road in conference play, and we put up with a few lousy seasons. We've come a long way with our expectations. That's not a criticism of then or now, just perspective.

 

[Tornado man]

Villanova has a rep of being 4 guards, but that is misleading. In 15/16 they had a 6'11" center who was a great rim protector in Ochefu. Plus Jenkins was 6'6" 240 lbs and Bridges 6'7".

Last year their 3 bigs played 70mpg- with Pascall, Spellman and Roundtree- all over 6'9". Plus it didn't hurt that just about every Villanova guard was drafted by the NBA.

A 4 guard lineup can win, but it takes 4 elite level guards who are money from 3 point land. This years ISU roster had one high volume/high make (around 40%) 3 point shooter in Wigginton. Our other two high volume 3 point shooters, NWB & THT, only shot around 33% in Big 12 play.

The number of elite teams that play a traditional 3/2 lineup far exceeds teams that play 4 guards. Also 3/2 teams are just as effective shooting 3's.

You're forgetting the defensive lockdown pressure that Nova puts on teams. Three levels above ISU.

 

[jsb]

I don't know if he needs to go or not. After the game I was all about go get Fred back now!

In either case, look how far we've come as a program. Johnny Orr, who we all love, probably could have coached Iowa State until death. We loved those teams and cheered hard for them and never second-guessed Coach. But he never won a Big 8 tournament, made it to the Sweet 16 once, never won on the road in conference play, and we put up with a few lousy seasons. We've come a long way with our expectations. That's not a criticism of then or now, just perspective.

I get a lot of crap on here because people seem to think that I accept losing. And it's not really about that. I expect the players and coaches to have bigger expectations than the Orr years. I expect the coaches to acknowledge that things could be done differently (now I don't think they should do that during the season or necessarily in public). And because I don't think Prohm is stupid, I think he will do those things.

But, as a fan, I can't do anything about any of it. So I choose to be mostly happy with this season. I think for a program that can't keep a coach, NCAA tournaments are a good thing.

 

[jsb]

This team does not respond well to physical play, and tOSU was beating the living crab out of anyone that dared to drive.

This is the best defensive team we’ve had in years. I mean, Babb was a great defender, but under Fred defense was not a strong point, but we had George’s Niang to stretch the defense and knock down threes.

The thing is, we make a few shots we win the game.

I’ve felt that Lindell needed to on the floor and play two guard all year, but that’s not his position, and I am sure Prohm put out his best team.

We needed a shooter, and just did not have one.

I get the Prohm hate, because Coaches have responsibility, but this was a piecemeal team of transfers and freshman that had a ton of adversity. I can’t see it as a coaching failure. It’s not like it was a Senior laden team that had years together.[/QUOTE]

There were two senior starters. But only one of them had played significant minutes here and the other was a transfer. It wasn't exactly a young team, but it wasn't a team that was used to playing together.

 

[ThatllDoCy]

There were two senior starters. But only one of them had played significant minutes here and the other was a transfer. It wasn't exactly a young team, but it wasn't a team that was used to playing together.

IMO starting two freshman is a young team, but yeah, we had transfers or freshman, and Lard has not had many minutes.

 

[Tornado man]

The thing is, we make a few shots we win the game.

That is such a throwaway line. Ohio State shot worse than we did - not even 40%. They could say if they make a few shots it wouldn't have been as close...

 

[kcdc4isu]

One good thing, after we fire coach we have so many experts on here who can fill the void and take us in year one to the final four!!

 

[cydsho]

People are saying we need to get rid of a coach who has made the NCAAs 3 out or 4 years?
I didn't realize a lot of ISU graduates were also college coaches who really know what they are talking about.....
I thought we were an engineering and ag school.

 

[Dryburn]

For those calling for CSP's job, just stop. I'd wager that some of you "experts" who spout your opinions have never coached, or possibly even played a game or organized team basketball in your lives.

Here is how I see it. First, CSP had to follow an ISU legend into the coaching job, and did pretty well for himself in a tough situation with Fred's players. I have never heard any of those players say one bad thing about CSP have you? Then, he had to deal with losing several players in one year who are now virtually all playing one level of professional ball or another, including 3 in the NBA at least part-time if not full-time, to add to the 2 NBA players he lost off the roster the year before. If you are not Duke, UNC, Kentucky, etc....that is a lot to recover from.

Last year was rough. Honestly, when that season started, I didn't think the team would win 10 games. Then, what does CSP do? Just brings in one of the best if not arguably the best recruiting classes in ISU history. So yeah....let's get rid of him while those guys are still freshmen....that would be brilliant! Don't forget that CSP is also responsible for Lindell, Shayok, and Jacobson being here.

The problem I saw was that with that level of talent, he also recruited some giant egos.....which eventually led (I believe) to some of the chemistry problems that led to the slide late in the season. Coaches usually can't fix those magically. It is up to the players to do that on their own, and I think this team did that pretty well. I think Prohm needed to stay out of it and he did.

Yesterday's game..a case of a finesse/speed style versus a physical/slow it down style. That is pretty much the Big 10 versus the Big 12, which I think is part of the reason that the Big 12 teams do not always do so well in the dance. Controlling tempo is not much of a problem in the Big 12 because most of the teams play at a faster pace, or adjust to it when they must. I honestly don't think Big 12 teams know very well how to speed up a tempo against a physical team. The mistake yesterday was that ISU got away from it's tempo and style of play after their initial run in the first half, and for whatever reason could not get it back. Rebounding was a huge problem, but so was just a lack of good shooting. It happens. Maybe CSP should have tried to use a different approach, but he is not on the floor either. None of us really know what he was telling the team in the huddle, but I'm pretty confident it wasn't to go out there and ignore rebounding, boxing out, and oh yeah.....miss most of your shots, especially those 3's.

So, calm down. The future looks bright here for MBB. We have a decent coach, a decent recruiter, and best of all HE WANTS TO BE HERE!!!!! I have no idea what Lindell and Talen will do. My personal opinion is that neither is ready right now. Lindell's injury really set him back......and I think he needs to come back and show the NBA people what he can really do next year. Talen is very young (which the NBA loves) and a great athletic talent but I just don't see him on an NBA roster yet, and even in D-league he is not going to get the minutes he needs because of his inability (so far) to put together solid games every time out. He will get that chance to develop in college. I hope, mostly for their sake, that both give college at least one more year. It worked for Nader, Georges, Monte, Naz, and Burton. It will be best for them too, imho.

So, everyone relax. Most of you who are so hot to get rid of CSP have no realistic suggestions who to replace him with that would be guaranteed to be better, so what is the point? Fred is not coming back, plus after his publicized comments about recruiting, and the lack of solid recruiting he did the last couple of years he was here, why the hell would you want him back? Because he can call good out-of-bounds plays coming out of a timeout? Please.

 

[mdk2isu]

Execution is ultimately reflective of coaching.

We had good shots last night. That’s the coaching aspect of execution. We didn’t make the shots. That’s the playing part of execution.

 

[kingcy]

So what if we have no team left? What if THT, Lard, Lewis and Wiggs leave. Just sayin what happens if the roster blows up because of the internal problems this team had. Do we then start over with a new coach also? In my opinion the answer is yes...

Three guys you mention want to get paid if they leave. They are not going to get paid to play in the NBA at this point. I guess they can go play in Korea, but if they want to go the NBA at some point staying at ISU is their best option.

CSP built this roster with the talent it has on it. Maybe the best Freshman class in the history of the school. What makes you think anyone can do better at bringing talent to Ames?

 

[kingcy]

This team is young??? Sure there are three freshmen that played (only two major minutes) and the rest of the team was two fifth year seniors (Shayok and Babb), a fourth year junior in Jacobsen, a third year sophomore in Lard, and one sophomore Wigginton.........sure there are other young players on the roster that may help in the future that are young but the line-up used by Prohm for most of the year was not extremely young. Baylor and K-State just lost in the first round also.......

Facts are that Prohm:

Took over a very strong program and has won three NCAA tournament games in four years.....NONE in the last two

Has a 35-37 record in Big 12 play in four years......13-23 the last two years with mostly his players.

Had a defensive philosophy tonight that chose not to double team Ohio State's best player and it clearly didn't work



Some people are getting angry about people "hating" on Steve Prohm and yet their defense for what he has accomplished at ISU is laughable.......he hasn't done a terrible job by any means......what he has done is mediocre.....if you are okay with mediocre then great but I'm not.......

They played 3 upper class men this year. One player on this roster had NCAA tourney experience. Didn't Baylor win their first round game?

KSU won the conference with a group of Seniors, they went to the Elite 8 last year. That group was 5-13 in conference play as Freshmen and 8-10 as sophs. That school stayed the course and were rewarded the last 2 years. Sure the fell short this year in the tourney, but Wade also didn't play. Tech started 4 seniors and the conference player of the year.

Sure this team hasn't been perfect this year, but they have also had some big wins and done good things.