Seton Hall Flagrant foul - wrong call, or right call rarely made?

Discussion in 'General College Sports' started by kchacker, Mar 18, 2017.

  1. kchacker

    kchacker Active Member

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  2. jereseib

    jereseib Well-Known Member

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    It was the right call. Maybe next time they will at least try for the ball. Maybe Seton Hall should focus more on taking care of the ball better in the last minute and it wouldnt happen.
     
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  3. Doc

    Doc Well-Known Member

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    I think it was the right call, but I still hate to see a game end like that.

    Also, did that Arkansas player travel earlier in the play? I don't think he did but it sure looked ugly.
     
  4. Rabbuk

    Rabbuk Well-Known Member

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    I think the Seton Hall player looked like he pushed off too. It wasn't something I'd call a flagrant with a few seconds left.
     
  5. cyclonedave25

    cyclonedave25 Well-Known Member

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    By rule, it was technically the right call since the guy didn't make a play on the ball.
    However, I honestly don't think it gets called a flagrant foul if he doesn't trip and fall. It just made it look a lot worse than it really was. A lot of times at the end of games you see players just put their hands on the guy to get the foul called and not make a play on the ball. The trip just sold it so they had to go review it.

    That being said, SH didn't deserve to win anyway with how sloppy they closed out that game.
     
  6. jkclone

    jkclone Well-Known Member
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    It was the right call, and an easy one really. Officials don't do a very good job of calling these normally. If you want to foul you have to at least attempt to go for the ball. It doesn't have to be a great attempt, but you can't just put two hands on someones back.
     
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  7. ISUAlum2002

    ISUAlum2002 Well-Known Member

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    That's not a flagrant foul. I've heard about this but I wasn't able to watch it live, this is my first look at the replays. I've watched a ton of basketball and contact like that has never been a flagrant foul call before. The actual contact is no more than what you normally see at the end of a game. The incidental contact caused the trip and fall, which made it look worse than it actually was, but that was incidental contact and in no way excessive or purposeful.

    Terrible call and Seton Hall got hosed. This board would be in total chaos if a call like that would go against us.
     
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  8. jkclone

    jkclone Well-Known Member
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    The trip or how hard the push was doesn't matter. There is no attempt to play the ball. Easy call.

    You are right the board would be going crazy, but it would be at the player for making a boneheaded play.
     
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  9. CycloneWanderer

    CycloneWanderer Well-Known Member

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    Right call rarely made. I wish all intentional fouls at the ends of games were called like this one.
     
  10. ISUAlum2002

    ISUAlum2002 Well-Known Member

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    Guys never/rarely make plays on the ball when they're fouling at the end of games to force free throws. We'd better start calling flagrants on all of them.
     
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  11. kcdc4isu

    kcdc4isu Well-Known Member

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    Read the rule book. This was a F1 foul which the official had the guts to call. There are too many such fouls not called because it is "near the end of the game". If it is a foul in the first minute of the game it is a foul in the last minute.
     
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  12. jkclone

    jkclone Well-Known Member
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    I agree they need to call it more, but it usually has a small argument that could be made they were going for the ball.
     
  13. ISUAlum2002

    ISUAlum2002 Well-Known Member

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    Post the applicable section, let's all take a look.
     
  14. kcdc4isu

    kcdc4isu Well-Known Member

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    But was it an incorrect call? From the NCAA men's basketball rulebook, Rule 4; Section 15; Article 2.c.2:

    A flagrant 1 personal foul is a personal foul that
    is deemed excessive in nature and/or unnecessary, but is not based solely
    on the severity of the act. Examples include, but are not limited to:
    1. Causing excessive contact with an opponent;
    2. Contact that is not a legitimate attempt to play the ball or player,
    specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting;
    3. Pushing or holding a player from behind to prevent a score;
    4. Fouling a player clearly away from the ball who is not directly
    involved with the play, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock
    from starting; and
    5. Contact with a player making a throw-in.
    6. Illegal contact caused by swinging of an elbow that is deemed
    excessive or unnecessary but does not rise to the level of a flagrant 2
    personal foul (pg. 47)

    Here is the rule see #2, 3
     
  15. 3TrueFans

    3TrueFans Well-Known Member

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    Right call, it's super easy to intentionally commit a foul without it being a flagrant, happens in nearly every game with no calls. Can't just two hand shove a guy though, don't know what else the refs could do in that situation with the rules as they are.

    There's nothing that says you have to be playing the ball, grabbing a guy that beats you off the dribble is a common foul and you're not playing the ball. Shoving that guy as he beats you however is a different story.
     
  16. ISUAlum2002

    ISUAlum2002 Well-Known Member

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    #2 is out the window....that happens at the end of every single game that is close enough to require forcing one team or the other to shoot free throws and is never called, so that doesn't justify calling it in this situation.

    That leaves us with #3. Was the push from behind? Pretty close, but I'd say yes. Was it preventing a score? Debatable, but it was out on the 3 point arc, I don't think you can make a strong argument for that.
     
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  17. Pat

    Pat Active Member

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    Hot take: since the most highly-graded officials also advance in the tournament, it leads to a bunch of games in the first round that are called "correctly" by the book, but, in reality, far more tightly than anyone is used to.

    Was it an easy call for a flagrant? Absolutely. Does that call happen during the regular season? Or, for that matter, the Big 12 Championship game? No way.
     
  18. larry

    larry Member

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    4. Fouling a player clearly away from the ball who is not directly
    involved with the play, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock
    from starting;

    Didn't West Virginia do this to us in the title game multiple times at the end of the game--they were only called regular fouls. Or was it the Baylor game the week before?
     
  19. jkclone

    jkclone Well-Known Member
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  20. Desiigner

    Desiigner Well-Known Member

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    Right call, you can't shove a guy in the back like that
     

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