Please, there was plenty of talent to win the conference.
Two weeks ago were one game out of first and manhandled the first place team. We are one missed layup away from being 3-0 against the Big 12 champs.
***Official WV postgame thread***
- Thread starter Cyclonepride
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Please, there was plenty of talent to win the conference.
Two weeks ago were one game out of first and manhandled the first place team. We are one missed layup away from being 3-0 against the Big 12 champs.
No there isn't. We have one guy with a moderate amount of rebounding talent, two guys with shooting talent, one guy with shot blocking talent, maybe one guy who can facilitate, one guy who has any sort of desire to defend, and maybe one guy with low post ability.
There wasn't enough of either.
I'll concede to the notion that there are talented players on the roster. Problem is, it never was the right mixture of guys. You can have all the talent in the world on the offensive perimeter, but if you don't have a guy to box out, go get a rebound, get a bucket in the paint on a mismatch, or anybody to guard the drive, then you have a team that can only get a win when they're shooting well.
Talent is just as much defense, rebounding, and toughness as it is shooting, passing, and dunking.
Cardinal 2001 is right., Everyone show up on Saturday, Cheer as loud as you can and show support for our players . Make them feel appreciated and know we are with them as cyclones. Make them want to do well for us if not themselves.
How many people are trading Jr/Sr versions of Naz, Thomas, Niang, Morris, Ejim for their Fr/So versions? Nobody is. The teams those guys were on when they were young didn't win because of them. That 14 team didn't win because of Niang, Morris and Naz. Sure, they helped, but that team won because they had three guys in Ejim, Hogue and Kane who knew there was **** that had to be done a certain way. Kane would be the best rebounder on this team by a substantial margin. He would have the best pure DReb% and he was playing with two guys sucking up nearly 40%. This team doesn't have that. I tend to think it's just how it worked out. Babb isn't that type of guy and Shayok isn't either. As it relates to this year, that team has guys holding others accountable. You didn't get away with **** if Kane and Ejim were around. I just don't see that here and a coach isn't going to turn someone into that.
Hate to break it to you but no one in the conference has any talent either.
KSU has 4 D-League superstars that have been playing together for 3 years.
KU has injuries and back ups and Lawson
Baylor has a bunch of no bodys that can rebound.
TTech has Culver and a bunch of role players
We have 2 returning All-Big 12 coming off the bench.
Agree on LW starting. With the effort or total lack of effort from Lard last night, I'm fine if never steps on the court in an ISU jersey again. He will be in Europe or G-league roster next year.
That is pretty tame. Check out the one from Utah StateThe same fan base that has a student section name a "Bum of the Game" where they endlessly boo that player ever time he touches the ball?
Here is an example from last year:
There's no doubt the talent is down this season. Which is why KSt was able to win. Even if Iowa St has the talent, you're contradicting yourself, because it's obvious that it wasn't "talent" that won the league. Kst has a very experienced roster, that means a whole bunch.
On the plus side, we’re not hearing about phone calls where Prohm is recorded talking about offering kids a bunch of money to commit Like Will Wade from LSU.
So that’s nice.
So that’s nice.
Two of those have a significant amount of experience which was part of my point. If your argument is that KU isn't more talented than us, I would point you to their actual roster. Baylor plays their balls off and doesn't seem to have nearly as much AAU carryover happening.
Well, due to a prior engagement last night I didn't get to watch the debacle, and erased it as soon as I could from my DVR.
I also decided to completely avoid CycloneFanatic last night because I didn't want to witness or be part of the meltdown.
But, since I am a vocal defender of Prohm, and since I did start an "Up yours" type of thread to the Prohm haters after the road win at Texas Tech back in January, I need to be consistent and participate in a thread after the worse loss of the season as well.
First off, I don't care if the ghost of John Wooden was being assisted by Coach K last night for West Virginia, at no point should we ever have been down by 21 points to them, much less allow them to score 54 points in 20 minutes of basketball. Completely inexcusable and unacceptable, even without Shayok.
I really can't add anything new to this thread that hasn't likely already been written, but I will say that a lot of my defense of Prohm is based on my personal belief that you do not improve a program by firing a coach. Period. We tried that not too long ago with firing Wayne Morgan and replacing him with Greg McDermott, and while Morgan had his issues and was not the long-term answer, ISU basketball only got worse with Greg McDermott. Despite last season's struggles and this recent late-season swoon, Steve Prohm will still have averaged 20 wins/season even if we don't win another game this season, and there's a 99% chance that we will have played in three NCAA tournaments in four seasons under him. You don't fire a coach, particularly at Iowa State, with that kind of resume, and it's just plain foolish to think otherwise, despite last night's sh!tshow.
Johnny Orr, God rest his soul, was the head basketball coach at ISU for 14 years, from 1980-1994. Since then, including Steve Prohm, we have had six different head basketball coaches in 25 years. If you do not include CSP, the average length of time the five coaches before him have spent at Iowa State is 4.2 years. That is insane when you think about it. A Power 5/6 basketball program, especially one with limited resources and a lack of a natural, fertile recruiting base, such as Iowa State, cannot have that kind of instability and expect to compete with the blue bloods of college basketball, much less become a blue blood themselves. I would argue it's pretty damn impressive that the program is as stable and as good as it is, considering the relative lack of stability with the head coaches leading the program.
For as vehemently as I have defended Prohm on here, I have also written that he is not perfect nor above criticism or accountability. If you don't have chemistry in the first place, it's hard to get it, and if you lose it in the middle of the season, it's tough to get it back. I'm not even so concerned about a win on Saturday against Texas Tech as I am just looking like a competent Power 5 basketball team. CSP does need to figure out whatever the h*ll it is he needs to figure out and get this thing turned around.
But even if he doesn't, he needs to get the chance to turn it around in the off-season instead of being sent packing after winning 20 games. We cannot afford to start all over again.
I also decided to completely avoid CycloneFanatic last night because I didn't want to witness or be part of the meltdown.
But, since I am a vocal defender of Prohm, and since I did start an "Up yours" type of thread to the Prohm haters after the road win at Texas Tech back in January, I need to be consistent and participate in a thread after the worse loss of the season as well.
First off, I don't care if the ghost of John Wooden was being assisted by Coach K last night for West Virginia, at no point should we ever have been down by 21 points to them, much less allow them to score 54 points in 20 minutes of basketball. Completely inexcusable and unacceptable, even without Shayok.
I really can't add anything new to this thread that hasn't likely already been written, but I will say that a lot of my defense of Prohm is based on my personal belief that you do not improve a program by firing a coach. Period. We tried that not too long ago with firing Wayne Morgan and replacing him with Greg McDermott, and while Morgan had his issues and was not the long-term answer, ISU basketball only got worse with Greg McDermott. Despite last season's struggles and this recent late-season swoon, Steve Prohm will still have averaged 20 wins/season even if we don't win another game this season, and there's a 99% chance that we will have played in three NCAA tournaments in four seasons under him. You don't fire a coach, particularly at Iowa State, with that kind of resume, and it's just plain foolish to think otherwise, despite last night's sh!tshow.
Johnny Orr, God rest his soul, was the head basketball coach at ISU for 14 years, from 1980-1994. Since then, including Steve Prohm, we have had six different head basketball coaches in 25 years. If you do not include CSP, the average length of time the five coaches before him have spent at Iowa State is 4.2 years. That is insane when you think about it. A Power 5/6 basketball program, especially one with limited resources and a lack of a natural, fertile recruiting base, such as Iowa State, cannot have that kind of instability and expect to compete with the blue bloods of college basketball, much less become a blue blood themselves. I would argue it's pretty damn impressive that the program is as stable and as good as it is, considering the relative lack of stability with the head coaches leading the program.
For as vehemently as I have defended Prohm on here, I have also written that he is not perfect nor above criticism or accountability. If you don't have chemistry in the first place, it's hard to get it, and if you lose it in the middle of the season, it's tough to get it back. I'm not even so concerned about a win on Saturday against Texas Tech as I am just looking like a competent Power 5 basketball team. CSP does need to figure out whatever the h*ll it is he needs to figure out and get this thing turned around.
But even if he doesn't, he needs to get the chance to turn it around in the off-season instead of being sent packing after winning 20 games. We cannot afford to start all over again.
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Good post.
We do know at this point that Pollard is a believer in continuity, which is understandable to want stability for your top programs. At the same time it's a fine line to walk, as you don't want to hang on to a failing coach for too long either (we're not at that point yet). Remember that JP was ready to give McDermott a 5th year, even though it was obvious he wasn't going to get it done after that talented 2009-10 team didn't even sniff the NIT.
I still support Prohm, but he is facing some real adversity right now. How he responds and changes things up in the offseason is going to be a big factor in the future of his program, and his tenure here. I'm pulling for him to get things figured out.
How do we not know that Wigginton and Lard simply put up great stats on a bad team last year?
This year would seem to support that, and while I think both are pretty valuable players their value may have been inflated.
FIFY.
And ISU's 2 returning All-Big 12 players have not been those kinds of players this year.
It’s not good to have such glaring chemistry issues arise this late, but at the same time it’s reassuring.
Although it didn’t explode until recently, we’ve been increasingly displaying some attention to detail and basic execution problems. If this is mostly a reflection of chemistry, it’s good news. This is likely a one-off. New team, new chemistry. I’m sure a guy like Prohm will carry forward some lessons learned in how to manage a P5 locker room.
So, about that tasty tidbit from the post-game? 24 hours is quite tease...
Because Fred made sure he didn’t blow up. Same as Floyd did with Kenny Pratt, some players you have to manage differently. prohm has to figure out how to do that, he lost McKay somewhere in that season and he was never the same, same thing happening this year.
McKay played some nice ball at the end of his senior year.
Had to get back to a point where he wasn't trying to do things like create or shoot from the elbow. Part of his problem was him trying to do more than his ability allowed.
