This. We are not that far behind. We seem to play to the weaknesses of this squad. Its weird.
***Official USMNT Thread***
- Thread starter ianoconnor
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I think people see the name of the clubs and think that equals talent. Pulisic has true talent and puts it in to practice. The rest of them have YouTube talent.
I would take Clint Dempsey over anyone than Pulisic. There’s just zero edge with this crop of players.
Gio Reyna literally was named one of the best young players in Europe for Borussia Dortmund and in 2022-23 had the 2nd best minute:Goal ratio for a top 5 league player behind some no name irrelevant player: Erling Haaland.
Weah is getting minutes at Juve. But yeah, I am sure they are just throwing him out there for giggles in the Rd 16 in the Copa Italia.
Dest (Who is injured) was also a finalist for Golden Boy for his play at Barcelona.
Hell even Weston McKennie regained his starting role at Juve as of 2023-24. Seems like hes on the way out now and given his performance at the Copa I can see why.
But sure, all these clubs are giving these American's minutes over European players because they are Youtube famous.
Again, grit and determination. 100% valid points. But in terms of having talent? insane to think there isn't talent on this team.
I see the 2002 team was brought up, and I start by saying this is in zero defense of the **** show we saw last night and recently.
The 2002 World Cup run wasn't exactly as rosy as folks remember in Group Stage. The US did beat Portugal but drew South Korea 1-1 after giving up a 78th minute goal to get to 4 points in the group. But same situation as last night where we needed to win or get a result to control out own destiny and the team got blasted by last-place group finisher Poland 3-1. The only reason we moved onto the KO Round was a 70th minute goal by South Korea to beat Portugal 1-0.
The 2002 World Cup run wasn't exactly as rosy as folks remember in Group Stage. The US did beat Portugal but drew South Korea 1-1 after giving up a 78th minute goal to get to 4 points in the group. But same situation as last night where we needed to win or get a result to control out own destiny and the team got blasted by last-place group finisher Poland 3-1. The only reason we moved onto the KO Round was a 70th minute goal by South Korea to beat Portugal 1-0.
Now do Germany, Argentina, England, France, etc. talent has levels. sure they are talented they are professional footballers that play for pretty big clubs. But that’s about as far as I’ll go. Tiger woods has talent, so does Charley Hoffman, they are far from equal though.
Germany, Argentina, England, France aren't in the CONCACAF last I checked. Panama is and we lost 3/4 to a squad that mostly comes from the MLS and their leading scorer has 0 goals in the MLS.
Lets start by winning our group and then we can talk about teams that have had insane amounts of talent for decades for the record.
You’re the one that’s talking about all this talent we have. I disagree, because they haven’t done ****. Talent means you do ****.
Tell that to England. They have COPIOUS amounts of obvious talent and haven't done ****.
Sometimes coaching actually matters. Shocker.
They’ve done a lot more than we have. Like I said, there are levels. They aren’t nearly as talented as Germany, Argentina, France, Brazil, Italy. Thats why they get to the QF’s of euros and WC’s and sometimes pop up to the semis but never win. The true talent gets to the last 4 regularly, they get to the final often, they win once in awhile. The generational teams win for a couple cycles in a row.
But your entire argument is around what our players have done for the US.
England is a perfect example of talent that has underperformed for their country. England Striker, Kane, is a top flight scorer. Jude Bellingham is Real Madrids top scorer and equaled CR7s 10 goals in first 10 appearances mark. By raw talent England is consistently one of the most talented sides in all of Europe and even the globe. Yet haven't lifted a trophy since 1966.
Also, I am not calling for the US to win a trophy. I am calling for them to beat Panama and make it out of the group stage. I am asking for them to beat the teams in their own region. If we can't hold this team to that level with this amount of talent (And it is significantly more talent than anyone in CONCACAF) then what are we even doing here? just stop watching soccer all together if thats the mentality, clearly if we can't beat a nation smaller than Iowa because of "Lack of talent" then we should probably shut it down.
The point is maybe we should build a team instead of building a collection of talent, because that isn’t working.
I think there's a big difference between how the USA needs to win against European teams, and how they can win against CONMEBOL and CONCACAF teams. As good as I do think a lot of the US players are, they aren't so good that they can dictate their style in a game like this. And Berhalter's tactics are horrible against teams that want to ugly the game up, and play cynically. I think they can and do work in bigger pitches, but the World Cup won't be played in larger pitches just due to them being in football stadiums.
The US can win these games if they improve in set pieces. Pulisic is great, but he does not deliver good set pieces, and I don't think we have anyone like Oguchi Oneywu to score off them any more. You can play a style that works better on bigger pitches, but you need to also have a way to win ugly and we don't have that.
That's honestly one advantage MLS guys have, the higher level players in MLS are going to play in Mexico, in a Costa Rican swamp, on a cricket pitch in Panama, in the CONCACAF champions League, which are horrible to play in. They know how to play against and beat the shithousery.
The US can win these games if they improve in set pieces. Pulisic is great, but he does not deliver good set pieces, and I don't think we have anyone like Oguchi Oneywu to score off them any more. You can play a style that works better on bigger pitches, but you need to also have a way to win ugly and we don't have that.
That's honestly one advantage MLS guys have, the higher level players in MLS are going to play in Mexico, in a Costa Rican swamp, on a cricket pitch in Panama, in the CONCACAF champions League, which are horrible to play in. They know how to play against and beat the shithousery.
I think Berhalter is just a yes man, the businessmen are picking the team for the most part. Not defending Berhalter I don’t think they are guiding tactics but also they very well could be. They see how US people think, “goals goals goals there’s no scoring in soccer!”
You could very well be right there, and I will note: I absolutely despise the current USMNT leadership across the board. There have been consistent allegations of racism towards Hispanic youth players and I recall Gonzalez specifically choosing Mexico over the US being a huge punch in the face after he played all his U14 caps in a US uniform. So there are absolutely institutional issues within the USMNT.
I would argue we saw some of them on the pitch yesterday as well. There are players out there in piss poor form that should never have been selected. Weston McKennie is my personal focus point. Never seen a more uninspired player.
And to your original point. I do remember that 2002 team, and the 2014 team where they weren't the most talented teams, but they ******* worked people. I mean they just out hustled the entire world. That to me is what we have lost more than anything and if the current players can't do that, cut their caps for players that will. IMO.
Ok. Doesn't change the fact the Group Stage wasn't this great thing. Of course they showed the mental fortitude to blank Mexico 2-0 and go toe to toe with Germany. It's why I said this was in no way sugar coating the **** show our current team is.
But same situation, and we got pounded by a mediocre at best Poland team when the chips were on the table and needed a late South Korea goal to move on. We didn't go earn it ourselves, just like last night. Difference is Bolivia didn't do what South Korea did for the '02 squad.
Worst part is. If we had taken care of business. Beaten Panama. It wouldn't have mattered if we lost to Uruguay.
