***Official Big 12 Expansion Thread '16***
- Thread starter cyclones500
- Start date
And based on that article posted about the history of the B12, Tech has next to no chance either.
Academics do matter, especially when you are talking about the Big Ten and the Pac 12. Every school in those Conferences is a Carnegie I school, at the very least. And most are AAU schools.
http://newsok.com/article/5473247
So scratch off OU going to the Big Ten. They are not an AAU school. TCU, TTU, and K-State are not going to the Pac 12. OSU, Baylor, and West Virginia are going nowhere. They are not even Carnegie I schools.
That leaves 4 schools in the present Big 12 with Carnegie I status. And only 3 schools with AAU membership. ISU, Kansas, and Texas are AAU schools. Oklahoma is a Carnegie I school that is unlikely to reach AAU status.
SEC is the only possible landing spot for any school which is lacking academically. The other conferences just won't take them as it diminishes their academic standing. The problem the Big 12 has is that we lost 4 schools in our conference that were all Carnegie I schools as well as AAU members. Nebraska subsequently lost AAU status. Big 12 took a real hit academically when those schools left.
The most viable options for expansion are Cinci, Houston, and UConn. All are Carnegie I schools. BYU is also an option but is a Carnegie II school, I believe. IMO, any potential member will be a Carnegie I school at the very least. So forget Memphis. Not happening.
http://newsok.com/article/5473247
So scratch off OU going to the Big Ten. They are not an AAU school. TCU, TTU, and K-State are not going to the Pac 12. OSU, Baylor, and West Virginia are going nowhere. They are not even Carnegie I schools.
That leaves 4 schools in the present Big 12 with Carnegie I status. And only 3 schools with AAU membership. ISU, Kansas, and Texas are AAU schools. Oklahoma is a Carnegie I school that is unlikely to reach AAU status.
SEC is the only possible landing spot for any school which is lacking academically. The other conferences just won't take them as it diminishes their academic standing. The problem the Big 12 has is that we lost 4 schools in our conference that were all Carnegie I schools as well as AAU members. Nebraska subsequently lost AAU status. Big 12 took a real hit academically when those schools left.
The most viable options for expansion are Cinci, Houston, and UConn. All are Carnegie I schools. BYU is also an option but is a Carnegie II school, I believe. IMO, any potential member will be a Carnegie I school at the very least. So forget Memphis. Not happening.
With all this lawsuit talk, somebody help me understand what the networks' ground for a lawsuit would be if the conference legitimately added a couple of teams?
Pro rata clause aside, expansion is function of the conference governing body and that body alone. The networks signed the deal, so unless Bowlsby and company were stupid enough to create a paper trail indicating that this was nothing more than a money grab, I'm not sure I understand the lawsuit talk.
Pro rata clause aside, expansion is function of the conference governing body and that body alone. The networks signed the deal, so unless Bowlsby and company were stupid enough to create a paper trail indicating that this was nothing more than a money grab, I'm not sure I understand the lawsuit talk.
People will come up with the most ridiculous scenarios to continue to stoke their own personal fears that somehow ISU is going to be on the outside looking in when this is all said and done. The Pac 12 is just like the Big 10 in the matter that academics actually do matter, which means ISU will get in long before SDSU, UNLV, or TCU ever get in.
I have stopped worrying about ISU getting into a conference if the B12 were to fail. We have a great institution are the largest state school in Iowa. We will get in somewhere. We are certainly more attractive than TT and KSU.
I think we could end up in the ACC. They value basketball and academics. ISU provides those. ISU will be fine.
After righting all that I am ready to be done with this nonsense. B12 should just call all the P5 conference commissioners and wrap this up. Get everyone a landing spot get our 4 conferences of 16 and be done.
I think we could end up in the ACC. They value basketball and academics. ISU provides those. ISU will be fine.
After righting all that I am ready to be done with this nonsense. B12 should just call all the P5 conference commissioners and wrap this up. Get everyone a landing spot get our 4 conferences of 16 and be done.
I still worry about relegation but ISU is in a much better position as a athletic and academic brand than it was 6 years ago. Enclosing the stadium, facility improvements, branding and a successful basketball program have me believing if the Big 12 does disappear ISU will find a chair at a BCS conference.
Hopefully Campbell will get some more on the field success to further bolster the attractiveness of ISU Football brand by the time Conference Judgement Day happens.
Just to clarify. I am talking 2024. UNLV's administration and state politicians have 8 years to make UNLV into school academically and athletically ready to be a Pac12 member. It might be their last chance.
If the NFL and NHL are willing to have a franchise in Las Vegas, I don't see the Pac12 turning a blind eye to a large metro in their existing footprint
Just like Houston school officials are pushing politicians to get Houston in the Big12, I am sure SDSU officials will do the same to get in the Pac12.
It's possible with the next round of TV rights negotiations in 2023, the difference in TV revenue between being in a P5 conference and not, could be 40-50M annually.
Rew the Big 10 with 14 schools. They can't even count. Lol. I'd rather be in the ACC as well. ISU is a great educational institution with great athletics. Hopefully football improves to make ISU stronger. Well I'd rather be in the Big 12. But! There are just to many opinions tied to money and no facts in regards to expansion for my taste.
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UNLV and San Diego State will never be members of the Pac 12. NEVER. They have a better shot at the Big 12. That isn't going to happen either.
BYU, CSU, UNM, UConn. Add state schools. No directional or city schools. It just sounds Conference USA-ish if we do.
BYU and UConn are the biggest brands financially outside of the power 5.
CSU fits the academic profile of the conference and brings back Denver. Plus a lot of BigXII alumni from other schools are there.
New Mexico is more of a geographic add but their basketball at The Pit is solid. Think of them as a more ethnic Kansas.
Go to 14. If B1G can add freeking Rutgers and Maryland... the East is tapped out by the B1G and SEC. This is now about staying above the PAC12.
South Division:
BYU
BU
CSU
TCU
TT
NM
UT
North Division:
ISU
KU
KSU
OSU
OU
UC
WVU
BYU and UConn are the biggest brands financially outside of the power 5.
CSU fits the academic profile of the conference and brings back Denver. Plus a lot of BigXII alumni from other schools are there.
New Mexico is more of a geographic add but their basketball at The Pit is solid. Think of them as a more ethnic Kansas.
Go to 14. If B1G can add freeking Rutgers and Maryland... the East is tapped out by the B1G and SEC. This is now about staying above the PAC12.
South Division:
BYU
BU
CSU
TCU
TT
NM
UT
North Division:
ISU
KU
KSU
OSU
OU
UC
WVU
It takes a lot longer than 8 years to take something that is barely better than a community college academics-wise and turn it into something that's on par with Arizona, ASU, OSU, or WSU. Forget Cal or Stanford - it will never be on par with those two schools, and those two schools have the biggest active voice on which schools they do and don't want in.
I'd be shocked if Big 12 actually went this way, but if it happened, I'd like it for the most part. (It helps that I'm an advocate of long-shot UNM).
Although it would violate your "no city schools," I'd still take Cincy over Colorado State, even if UConn was aboard. That might mess up the divisions a little, though, compared to your setup.
Here's what I find the most interesting in this sue happy threats environment:
The Big 12 was raided by other leagues with ESPN's money in their hands for the payola and "safer pastures" sirens' call. It could and should be a counter-suit that the t.v. networks have conspired to destroy the B12 in favor of their other "investments". This is the only really hidden agenda and issue of any real and significant relevance.
ESPN is the one who cut a separate side deal with Texas that was intended to destabilize the league and was a clear "bad faith" move. All hell broke loose after that. ESPN will claim otherwise of course.
The B12 is going to be demoted by design and by intent going back to the start of this to non Power 5 and if all schools not named Texas or OU stop listening to the sweet nothings being whispered in their ears and pull the collective heads out of their asses the will add as many teams as they can.
Add them all and troll for the rest of the nonP5 to join - I mean all of them - and have one huge ass lawsuit that drags on for decades. Baylor will finally be given a chance to put their lawyer power of darkness to good use - although I would bet against it. It's against their nature.
Now you've got more players with resources and lawyers to destroy ESPN/FOX/etc. and get even with dollars. There will be no specific performance remedy.
Baylor's' worse than Texas so that leaves 7 schools and WVU should be looking to the old AAC or hoping that the remaining 6 vote together with WVU. Dead on arrival folks. It was all over before the shooting started.
Texas should end up independent and track towards irrelevance except for stupidity and greed. Some dip sheets will giddily allow them in to their conference to destroy yet another conference. They all deserve Texas.
OU and anyone too afraid or stupid enough to follow them (looking at you OSU) will end up in the SEC and be irrelevant faster than you can say "Missouri is the show me state". Or worse, the new "power" of the B10 west.
The only intelligent move at this point is to die by one's own hands and try to survive. Kick Texas out and sue ESPN/FOX and anyone else Baylor wants to.
Ugly is ugly folks. It's just Walking Dead brain dead when done in slow motion.
The Big 12 was raided by other leagues with ESPN's money in their hands for the payola and "safer pastures" sirens' call. It could and should be a counter-suit that the t.v. networks have conspired to destroy the B12 in favor of their other "investments". This is the only really hidden agenda and issue of any real and significant relevance.
ESPN is the one who cut a separate side deal with Texas that was intended to destabilize the league and was a clear "bad faith" move. All hell broke loose after that. ESPN will claim otherwise of course.
The B12 is going to be demoted by design and by intent going back to the start of this to non Power 5 and if all schools not named Texas or OU stop listening to the sweet nothings being whispered in their ears and pull the collective heads out of their asses the will add as many teams as they can.
Add them all and troll for the rest of the nonP5 to join - I mean all of them - and have one huge ass lawsuit that drags on for decades. Baylor will finally be given a chance to put their lawyer power of darkness to good use - although I would bet against it. It's against their nature.
Now you've got more players with resources and lawyers to destroy ESPN/FOX/etc. and get even with dollars. There will be no specific performance remedy.
Baylor's' worse than Texas so that leaves 7 schools and WVU should be looking to the old AAC or hoping that the remaining 6 vote together with WVU. Dead on arrival folks. It was all over before the shooting started.
Texas should end up independent and track towards irrelevance except for stupidity and greed. Some dip sheets will giddily allow them in to their conference to destroy yet another conference. They all deserve Texas.
OU and anyone too afraid or stupid enough to follow them (looking at you OSU) will end up in the SEC and be irrelevant faster than you can say "Missouri is the show me state". Or worse, the new "power" of the B10 west.
The only intelligent move at this point is to die by one's own hands and try to survive. Kick Texas out and sue ESPN/FOX and anyone else Baylor wants to.
Ugly is ugly folks. It's just Walking Dead brain dead when done in slow motion.
SIAP
Tramel: Why UConn should join BYU as best Big 12 expansion candidates
I want to support arguments for UConn, but I don't think he convinced me with this column.
His suggestion that BYU & UConn should drop round-robin sports, because of geography, after saying geography is overrated — wants it both ways. Also says football upside is overrated, but admits UConn is not a sleeping giant for football and wouldn't even be a solid addition to Big 12.
Tramel: Why UConn should join BYU as best Big 12 expansion candidates
I want to support arguments for UConn, but I don't think he convinced me with this column.
His suggestion that BYU & UConn should drop round-robin sports, because of geography, after saying geography is overrated — wants it both ways. Also says football upside is overrated, but admits UConn is not a sleeping giant for football and wouldn't even be a solid addition to Big 12.
If the conference expands I would rather have UCONN than Cincinnati - CMC is just starting to mine Ohio and I don't want Cincinnati promoted to compete directly with them for recruits.
Campbell will spin it into a positive if it's Cinci. That's what good recruiters do. They overcome obstacles and turn them into strengths.
IF the Big(X)II does fold, why does nobody think OU could end up in the B1G? Are they not on the same level academically as Big Red? I would also think the B1G would love for that rivalry to be renewed. I would have to think if they were thinking about Texas, that would be a big time thumb in the eye of Nebraska.
Relative to UT, OU has nothing that the Big Ten wants. UT is AAU, and would open up Texas FB recruits to the Big Ten. OU has none of that, except a president that thinks he's an academic elite. NU was AAU when they were accepted into the Big Ten, and they were subsequently booted out of the AAU. Although to be fair, I think the Big Ten knew there was a good chance of that happening when NU was admitted.
I thought I read when NU lost their AAU status that there were some university president's who were skeptical to add NU because of this. Michigan sticks out to me as one who wasn't on board with adding NU, but went with the flow anyways.
